[blacksmith76]

Originally Posted by TB Fla

I know they weren't "created" by scientists . I was saying they were introduced by man to solve a problem but all they did was cause another. But I must admit, I forgot that was just a myth about love bugs. Still true about Asian Carp though.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but if you read the article, they aren't the result of being introduced either, they just stowed away on cargo ships from Central America in the 1920s. But anyway, I get the point.

Personally I feel that with the rate at which technology is developing, weather manipulation is worth studying. Maybe we could figure out a way to just knock the intensity of the storm down a bit while still getting the rainfall that Florida needs.

[emi__]

Copy what they do in Hawaii?...

Um, what?

[FloridaKash]

I have some beach front property in Nevada. Anybody interested in purchasing it?

[Gunluvver2]

Originally Posted by pbmaise

I was in Europe recently and recall seeing a laboratory where a chemist was busy at work trying to turn lead into gold. It was rather a nice lab and the chemist obviously had a pretty good job compared to others employed by the lord of the manor.

We taxpayers, are like the lords of the manor of old, and we have paid many dollars for researchers to do experiments and come up with theories to stop hurricanes. Even Bill Gates has gotten into the act. However, as one person pointed out money spent on them so far hasn't yielded any gold.

Mostly people have the idea of putting cold water in, liquid nitrogen, or dropping in a powder that turns to ice. The problem with all those approaches is the shear amount of material that would be needed to be stored and quickly moved.

In Hawaii there are two things going on that protects most of Hawaii. Kauai, unfortunately, is too far from where the defense is to benefit from the protection and remains hurricane prone and susceptible. Hawaii's 3 biggest volcanoes turn moisture into snow. Each lb of snow formed removes about 12,000 btu of energy and steals 1 lb of water away.

Hawaii has hundreds of square miles of land above 9000 feet elevation and all that land can receive a lot of snow.

I agree it isn't practical to build a 13,000 foot tall mountain in Florida. However, what is practical is to examine the second thing the volcanoes do very closely. They are deflecting warm moist air into the jet stream where it gets carried harmlessly away.

Check out these videos of hurricane Flossie dying at the foot of Hawaii Island. The big streaks in the sky in the first photos come from moisture turned into ice crystals high in the jet stream.



YouTube - ‪Hurricane Flossie Updated‬‏

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

Deflection of winds UP into the jet stream isn't very practical for Atlantic hurricanes. You need a volcano to replicate the action in Hawaii.

However, just think a second what would occur if you deflected part of the jet stream DOWN. The air above Florida and the Gulf states is just as cold and dry as it is above Hawaii. So there is already a large natural defense sitting above these hurricane prone areas too.

If, and yes this is a big if, enough cold dry air can be sunk in front of an approaching hurricane, it will mix with the early winds. The mixture will become cool air and some water vapor will condense. The condensation in turn removes even more energy and the front gets even cooler.

The great thing about cool damp air is it is heavy. This means it will sink. The sinking air will draw even more of the jet stream lower and accelerate the process.

All this is pie in the sky theory..and isn't the phrase great? The pie is already in the sky. The solution to stopping a hurricane may be just sitting there waiting to get used from above.

Remember we are speaking in the many billions of dollars so the budget to build something is great. Whatever it is has to be able to be deployed and moved in position so it can be set in action days before the hurricane arrives.

Deflecting the wind isn't something new. We have been using it to our advantage for thousands of years on sailboats.

I will leave it to more capably people to figure out how much needs to be deflected down and how to go about doing it.

I'm just trying to turn a few heads to look at Hawaii and ponder the fact that most of Hawaii is not hurricane prone nor susceptible. Why not learn from it?

Good theory.
Unintended Consequences maybe?
We won't know until AFTER it is done but I like your thinking.
GL2

[fldivenut]

Interesting idea.

[TB Fla]

Originally Posted by blacksmith76

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but if you read the article, they aren't the result of being introduced either, they just stowed away on cargo ships from Central America in the 1920s. But anyway, I get the point.

Personally I feel that with the rate at which technology is developing, weather manipulation is worth studying. Maybe we could figure out a way to just knock the intensity of the storm down a bit while still getting the rainfall that Florida needs.

Weather manipulation already has been studied believe it or not. By who? the US military of course, always the first to explore new ways of killing, and with a budget as big as theirs, why not. Not only was is studied, it was implemented in Vietnam against the Vietcong by dumping loads of rain on them. Saw it on the weather channel.

[psulions2007]

I'm a meteorologist. I've focused much of my studies on tropical cyclones. This is, by far, the most ridiculous question I have ever heard asked.

Hurricanes for the most part die when they approach Hawai'i for a two main reasons:

1. Cooler waters to the east of Hawai'i.

2. More unfavorable upper atmosphere pattern near and just to the north of Hawai'i compared to near Florida. Hawai'i sits in the middle of a wide open Pacific Ocean surrounded by extremely deep water. Florida has relatively shallow water to its east and is part of a continent. The continent/shallower waters and Gulf Stream Current waters help to warm the water around Florida to a greater degree. Hawai'i sits outside of main oceanic currents, and is not big enough of a land mass. In addition, the fact that there is a wide open expanse of cooler waters to the north of Hawai'i allows more stable air masses to plunge near Hawai'i, and it allows for the trade winds to come out of the east relatively unabated. These trade winds can become strong and can shear apart tropical cyclones because they have no land mass to interrupt them, and they are enhanced greatly by the high pressure system to the north of Hawai'i.

Hurricanes do not "die" because "snow" on top of Mauna Kea is present. That makes absolutely no sense. Most tropical cyclones approaching Hawai'i come from the east, so this is why most die; however, if one were to come from the south where the waters are much warmer, then they will likely not. This happened when Hurricane Iniki hit Kaua'i in October 1992, and is most likely to occur late in the season during moderate to strong El Nino events where waters are much warmer than average and a cold front is able to pick up a developing system that far south.

[gypsychic]

Originally Posted by psulions2007

I'm a meteorologist. I've focused much of my studies on tropical cyclones. This is, by far, the most ridiculous question I have ever heard asked.

Hurricanes for the most part die when they approach Hawai'i for a two main reasons:

1. Cooler waters to the east of Hawai'i.

2. More unfavorable upper atmosphere pattern near and just to the north of Hawai'i compared to near Florida. Hawai'i sits in the middle of a wide open Pacific Ocean surrounded by extremely deep water. Florida has relatively shallow water to its east and is part of a continent. The continent/shallower waters and Gulf Stream Current waters help to warm the water around Florida to a greater degree. Hawai'i sits outside of main oceanic currents, and is not big enough of a land mass. In addition, the fact that there is a wide open expanse of cooler waters to the north of Hawai'i allows more stable air masses to plunge near Hawai'i, and it allows for the trade winds to come out of the east relatively unabated. These trade winds can become strong and can shear apart tropical cyclones because they have no land mass to interrupt them, and they are enhanced greatly by the high pressure system to the north of Hawai'i.

Hurricanes do not "die" because "snow" on top of Mauna Kea is present. That makes absolutely no sense. Most tropical cyclones approaching Hawai'i come from the east, so this is why most die; however, if one were to come from the south where the waters are much warmer, then they will likely not. This happened when Hurricane Iniki hit Kaua'i in October 1992, and is most likely to occur late in the season during moderate to strong El Nino events where waters are much warmer than average and a cold front is able to pick up a developing system that far south.

Just gave you reps. Bet you get a lot of 'em for this.

[pbmaise]

Aloha,
I read what you wrote, psulions2007,
please read it again...
These trade winds can become strong and can shear apart tropical cyclones because they have no land mass to interrupt them, and they are enhanced greatly by the high pressure system to the north of Hawai'i.
Now look at the photos.
There are two things that don't fit with your ideas. You also stated:
I'm a meteorologist. I've focused much of my studies on tropical cyclones.
Therefore, you of all people should know what you wrote doesn't match the photographic and video evidence.

When the hurricanes are ripped apart in Hawaii..by "verticial wind sheer" then new cloud systems develop East of the Island of Hawaii. The Tradewinds travel from East to West....so it is impossible for the Tradewinds to have done this.

As a sailor, I can attest that the waters around Hawaii are plenty warm for up to 4 days out of Hawaii when I sail to Canada. Yes...I would agree that the hurricanes hitting cold waters in California hit a wall...however..you only have to look at the distance that hurricanes continue to travel past and North of Hawaii to see that cold waters alone are not protecting Hawaii.

One question that you may be helpful in answering is how far up does the jet stream travel above Florida, also the speed, and density of the air at that point.

Philip Maise
Pahoa Hawaii

[psulions2007]

Originally Posted by pbmaise

Aloha,
I read what you wrote, psulions2007,
please read it again...
These trade winds can become strong and can shear apart tropical cyclones because they have no land mass to interrupt them, and they are enhanced greatly by the high pressure system to the north of Hawai'i.
Now look at the photos.
There are two things that don't fit with your ideas. You also stated:
I'm a meteorologist. I've focused much of my studies on tropical cyclones.
Therefore, you of all people should know what you wrote doesn't match the photographic and video evidence.

When the hurricanes are ripped apart in Hawaii..by "verticial wind sheer" then new cloud systems develop East of the Island of Hawaii. The Tradewinds travel from East to West....so it is impossible for the Tradewinds to have done this.

As a sailor, I can attest that the waters around Hawaii are plenty warm for up to 4 days out of Hawaii when I sail to Canada. Yes...I would agree that the hurricanes hitting cold waters in California hit a wall...however..you only have to look at the distance that hurricanes continue to travel past and North of Hawaii to see that cold waters alone are not protecting Hawaii.

One question that you may be helpful in answering is how far up does the jet stream travel above Florida, also the speed, and density of the air at that point.

Philip Maise
Pahoa Hawaii

On your first point, please read about easterly wind shear. This happens a lot in that area of the Pacific. It's not the *only* reason but it does happen.

The waters are not "plenty warm" for tropical cyclones to form to the east and north of Hawai'i. At a minimum, they require 26 C waters to form with a sufficient depth of warm waters. As one travels from the waters just south of Mexico, it will generally have a WNWly course towards the central Pacific. This will always take it over cooler waters being dumped into that area of the Pacific by the California current. These cooler waters then travel westerly towards the north of the Hawai'ian Islands.

With respect to your last question, it varies depending on the time of year, etc. The jet stream can come down over Florida, but it can also be well to the north.