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Old 02-09-2012, 10:00 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
261 posts, read 620,178 times
Reputation: 222

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Quote:
Originally Posted by IAm_FloridaBorn View Post
. Why?

Ride the High Speed rail to tampa and do what?
Yeah, great argument against high speed rail.

How many of us here have a background in urban planning? *raises hand*
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Old 02-09-2012, 10:08 PM
 
Location: Orlandooooooo
2,363 posts, read 4,399,726 times
Reputation: 876
Quote:
Originally Posted by blacksmith76 View Post
Yeah, great argument against high speed rail.

How many of us here have a background in urban planning? *raises hand*
Ok.... But Ride the High Speed Rail to Tampa and do What?
You failed to answer a simple question. Typical of people these days.
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Old 02-09-2012, 10:12 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
261 posts, read 620,178 times
Reputation: 222
Personally, I would skate the bro bowl in downtown Tampa. There.

There was a lot more at stake than just a line from Orlando to Tampa.

Last edited by blacksmith76; 02-09-2012 at 10:35 PM..
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Old 02-11-2012, 12:50 AM
 
Location: Tampa
2,602 posts, read 7,174,104 times
Reputation: 1535
Quote:
Originally Posted by IAm_FloridaBorn View Post
Ok.... But Ride the High Speed Rail to Tampa and do What?
You failed to answer a simple question. Typical of people these days.
I don't know, maybe walk down and catch a Lightning game, take in a show at the Performing Arts Center, take the streetcar to Channelside or Ybor City, or watch a movie at the palatial Tampa Theatre. All of these things are in close proximity to the proposed SunRail station in Downtown Tampa.
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Old 02-11-2012, 09:08 AM
 
817 posts, read 1,916,880 times
Reputation: 993
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferret111 View Post
I don't know, maybe walk down and catch a Lightning game, take in a show at the Performing Arts Center, take the streetcar to Channelside or Ybor City, or watch a movie at the palatial Tampa Theatre. All of these things are in close proximity to the proposed SunRail station in Downtown Tampa.
Cool, those are all great things to do. Let's say I live in Orlando and want to take my family of four to a Lightning game, and I take my family on the "Bullet train" for this trip. THe game starts at 7:30 pm, and I live in the area near Sand Lake Rd and I-4.

I pack up the kids and drive my car to the train station, which takes about 25 minutes. Wait for the train, 15 minutes (gotta get there early to make sure I don't miss it). Train takes 90 minutes to get tot Tampa. I take a cab from the train station to the arena (15 minutes between finding one and making the ride), and then when I go back home, I do all of that in reverse. $30 a ticket each way per person, plus a 5 cab ride, plus gas money to get to the station.

Total time-260 minutes hours spent travelling....about 4 hours and 20 minutes
Total money spent-$250

Now, let's say I drive instead ...

The trip from the southwest suburbs of Orlando to DT Tampa takes about 90 minutes. Finding parking take about 10, and getting OUT of the parking garages in DT Tampa takes about 20 minutes after a lighting game. Parking costs about 20 bucks, and gas for this trip is around 40 bucks.

Total time-210 minutes, or about 3 hours and 30 minutes
Total money spent-$60

Someone explain to me how this makes any sense to use the train.

And that doesn't factor in the freedom that your car gives you to go ANYWHERE in Tampa once you're there without having to use cabs.
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Old 02-13-2012, 09:46 AM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
261 posts, read 620,178 times
Reputation: 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin from Tampa View Post
Cool, those are all great things to do. Let's say I live in Orlando and want to take my family of four to a Lightning game, and I take my family on the "Bullet train" for this trip. THe game starts at 7:30 pm, and I live in the area near Sand Lake Rd and I-4.

I pack up the kids and drive my car to the train station, which takes about 25 minutes. Wait for the train, 15 minutes (gotta get there early to make sure I don't miss it). Train takes 90 minutes to get tot Tampa. I take a cab from the train station to the arena (15 minutes between finding one and making the ride), and then when I go back home, I do all of that in reverse. $30 a ticket each way per person, plus a 5 cab ride, plus gas money to get to the station.

Total time-260 minutes hours spent travelling....about 4 hours and 20 minutes
Total money spent-$250

Now, let's say I drive instead ...

The trip from the southwest suburbs of Orlando to DT Tampa takes about 90 minutes. Finding parking take about 10, and getting OUT of the parking garages in DT Tampa takes about 20 minutes after a lighting game. Parking costs about 20 bucks, and gas for this trip is around 40 bucks.

Total time-210 minutes, or about 3 hours and 30 minutes
Total money spent-$60

Someone explain to me how this makes any sense to use the train.

And that doesn't factor in the freedom that your car gives you to go ANYWHERE in Tampa once you're there without having to use cabs.
Depends on if you are looking at it as a short term or long term investment. Some people would view it as an opportunity to expand mass transit in both Orlando and Tampa.

Let's just say for argument's sake that Orlando and Tampa put in some light rail lines to the most popular spots not long after the high speed rail was finished. You could read a novel on the train, have a few drinks when you get to Tampa, not worry about having your family hurt in a car crash and the stress of Florida highway driving, etc. Business travelers can catch up on work on the train and save tons on car maintenance and insurance. Usually they have monthly/yearly passes for cheaper prices for people who ride a lot.
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Old 02-14-2012, 07:07 AM
 
21,079 posts, read 30,111,369 times
Reputation: 19429
Lost in the argument of who will ride what and where is the fact that corporate America finds transportation infrastructure appealing and the last time I checked the Orlando-Tampa corridor wasn't exactly brimming with a high-tech/corporate presence. Families and tourists aren't largely what keep rail lines operating, it's white collar commuters and business travelers who won't be appearing anytime soon without some corporate relocations, which won't happen without the infrastructure, which won't happen because area planners are backwards and Floridians don't open their pursestrings.....so the beat goes on.
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Old 02-14-2012, 09:33 AM
 
2,565 posts, read 5,165,409 times
Reputation: 857
Oh oh raises hand - background in Urban Policy.

Kevin -
You're not looking at the entire costs associated with the high speed rail vs driving. How much is your monthly car bill? Insurance? Mileage added? Wear and tear on tires and brakes from the drive? Risk of a break down or worse an accident? How about if someone else is in an accident which causes a huge backup on I-4?

Blacksmith -
You don't seem to be looking at it from the whole picture. There's not enough build-up and density yet in between Orlando and Tampa to warrant it at this point in time. There also isn't enough regular commuters between the two. Tampa stay in Tampa and Orlando stay in Orlando predominately. So you'd have large stretches and numerous stops that would have minimal business for a foreseeable amount of time. Likewise the majority of traffic is in Downtown Tampa and Downtown Orlando so it wouldn't be relieving traffic significantly in that entire space between.

The reality is I wish Rick Scott would've approved it anyways because who knows when we might get those funds again. But financially he did make the right decision. You have to start local and build out, not the other way. SunRail ridership is only one economic view on it. It's also going to greatly relieve congestion on I-4 which is the primary lifeline for Central Florida. Then there's economic development around the stations which will occur much quicker for SunRail than it would have for HSR because of the existing density.

HSR is relying on tourism. Even on this thread what are people saying they would use it for? As an alternative to driving if they want to go catch an event of some kind. What would people use the SunRail for? Getting to work. With HSR you still have to own a car, with SunRail you don't.
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Old 02-14-2012, 11:14 AM
 
4,158 posts, read 7,877,714 times
Reputation: 2371
People tend to forget what made the American road system so amazing. It was once the wide open roads that made everything interconnected, cheap, convenient and easy to move people and goods across distances. The problem is we can not pave the entire nation with roadways and at the rate we are going, we can not build enough roads for everyone and everything. One of the biggest pros for mass transit and rail is that it give consumers an OPTION. Not everybody should be abandoning their vehicles for trains. But with the option of trains AND roads AND other forms of transportation, we decongest our roads and highways that will making travel better for all, rail riders and drivers. More importantly, it will help open up the wide open roads again and bring down transportation cost for goods and alleviate some our dependency on foreign oil. I would love to have the option of mass transit, but I'm not selling my car anytime soon. I'd love to ride the Sunrail to work, the game, etc....and than on the weekends drive my car to wherever the road takes me.
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Old 02-14-2012, 06:00 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
261 posts, read 620,178 times
Reputation: 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by EndersDrift View Post

Blacksmith -
You don't seem to be looking at it from the whole picture. There's not enough build-up and density yet in between Orlando and Tampa to warrant it at this point in time. There also isn't enough regular commuters between the two. Tampa stay in Tampa and Orlando stay in Orlando predominately. So you'd have large stretches and numerous stops that would have minimal business for a foreseeable amount of time. Likewise the majority of traffic is in Downtown Tampa and Downtown Orlando so it wouldn't be relieving traffic significantly in that entire space between.

The reality is I wish Rick Scott would've approved it anyways because who knows when we might get those funds again. But financially he did make the right decision. You have to start local and build out, not the other way. SunRail ridership is only one economic view on it. It's also going to greatly relieve congestion on I-4 which is the primary lifeline for Central Florida. Then there's economic development around the stations which will occur much quicker for SunRail than it would have for HSR because of the existing density.

HSR is relying on tourism. Even on this thread what are people saying they would use it for? As an alternative to driving if they want to go catch an event of some kind. What would people use the SunRail for? Getting to work. With HSR you still have to own a car, with SunRail you don't.
There are metro areas in the country that would have been better choices for sure, but central Florida is probably one of the most important voting battleground areas in the whole country. I'm sure that was the reason. Obama wanted to eventually connect more cities, that was just the starting point. There must be bedroom communities between the two cities with people who would have used it, along with tourists.

Rail has been a big part of making Denver one of the top metros in the country. I guess seeing it being laid out over the years is part of the reason I support rail. It was just another medium sized city when I got there in the late 90's and now it's really becoming world class. Light rail is not the only reason, but it definitely helped. HSR would have been something different, but also more impressive and historic, for Tampa and Orlando. Too bad for Florida.
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