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Sure is, if you collect all of the anecdotal evidence from everyone who has left Florida or knows someone that has, we'll have some real evidence.
If you live in a "new city" or sprawling suburb anywhere in the country, I can't imagine one having a "neighborhood camaraderie" ANYWHERE, not just in Florida.
What constitutes a "new" city ? Once founded after 1850 ? 1900 ?
There are plenty of sprawling suburbs with neighborhood camaraderie, at least in the places I've lived.
I honestly can't relate, because I consciously chose to live in a non-gated, old neighborhood in an established city with some history.
Hmm, maybe the gates are the problem or the lack of history in Florida ...
1) For every person you know that has moved out of Florida, I could cite one that has moved TO Florida and stayed. That's why anectdotes are not usually going to win debates.
2) A new city is a city that does not have a lot of history. It's a "know it when I see it" thing. There are also many examples of suburbs and gated communities that have a more neighborhood feel, but in general I'm not entirely convinced there isn't at least a little bit of natural distrust or fear that drives people to gated subdivisions.
3) There is plenty of history in Florida. Florida has the earliest European settlement in the United States, and was the 27th state entered into the union. That means 23 other states are younger. Some areas of the state are older than others. Some neighborhoods have more history and character than others.
I think this is the crux of the problem for many people who voice this issue.
What they come here expecting is the type of neighborhood they left. What that means can vary from person to person, the place they are coming from, and individual experience in those places.
No, they expect people to be civil and friendly ... maybe that's too much to ask.
Problem - Neighbors aren't friendly
What does this mean? Did they not invite you over for a pool party? Did you try to reach out & talk to them and they yelled at you to get away from them? Do they run right past you without acknowledging you? Do they just stare at you while not acknowledging they are staring by waving or smiling, at least?
In my experience, the last (2) have been the case in the Florida neighborhoods I've lived in. Or there have been neighbors who run inside the minute we went inside just to avoid any conversation. Just recently, I took my daughter around to raise money for the Girls Scouts ... I could see the vertical blinds closing on several residences on our way up the walk and knew these people did not want to be bothered. At least answer the door and respectfully decline the solicitation.
Does this stuff happen everywhere ? Possibly ... just not the places I've lived and I've lived all over the world.
I have plenty of neighbors who do all of those things where I moved to (in upstate NY) from FL. A place where most people take it for granted that everybody would be friendly.
Not where I'm from in upstate NY. I can only speak for my hometown and Buffalo, but I've never encountered unfriendly neighbors.
But guess what? Maybe they have enough friends already...after all, they already live there. Maybe they prefer their privacy and don't want you dropping by their house unscheduled every day. Maybe they just didn't see you when you waved? Maybe many other reasons that doesn't make them bad people, but just people you aren't likely to have commonality with. Good...they've saved you the time of waiting to find out you don't actually have a relationship to be had. So find people who do share your interests in life and mingle with them...there are millions of other people in Florida. And I'll add that it happens everywhere you move to...so don't kid yourself into thinking this is a FL thing. You may hear about it more because more people move to FL...so more people adjusting to a new area (some of which may be your bad neighbors!)...but don't think these things don't occur every day, in every town, and in every neighborhood across the country.
Personally, I think this is really just mistaken for "I'm used to a homogenized place where everybody is the same". Therefore, everybody already has a commonality with their neighbors to discuss how similar our lives are, how we all enjoy the same things, we all know the same people, we all drive similar vehicles, and we all work at the same place. If this was your life prior to moving to Florida....and you really need to be objective with yourself about this & whether you will want this in a new neighborhood...then Florida is probably not for you unless you look REALLY carefully for such neighborhoods.
Otherwise...you will have to adapt to new people. People who are probably different than you. They may not have the same customs, nor the same manners, nor dialect that you are accustomed to. They may find it rude when you cut them off during conversation and not really want to engage with you again. They may find your accent just as annoying as you find theirs'. They may not be impressed with you, no matter how impressive you think you are. They might not believe in the same God you do, or they may not even believe in God. They may think $15/hr is decent pay because they are used to living in a lower cost state & don't have troubles affording their lifestyle on it. They may have different definitions of some words you use where you came from...such as "complainer". They also may not be inclined to invite people who complain all the time about everything to their kids' birthday party, or other activities.
Thanks for the life lesson, but I personally don't need it. I've lived in Europe, Australia, Canada, South America, and here and certainly know how to "adapt" to folks who don't have the same customs as me. Central Florida is definitely the least friendly place I've lived and I've spent quite a few years trying to figure out why. I certainly don't come off as a "complainer" like some and have made some decent friends down here. My current thinking is that most people down here don't want to make friends or be good neighbors as it's too much effort to invite someone over for dinner/cup of tea, pitch in on a block party, or just make a newcomer feel welcome. The U.S. in general could use a few lessons from Europeans and Australians in social skills.
1) For every person you know that has moved out of Florida, I could cite one that has moved TO Florida and stayed. That's why anectdotes are not usually going to win debates.
This is not a debate to be won ... simply a solicitation of opinions as to why Florida did not make the "Best Places to Live" list. To each their own ...
2) A new city is a city that does not have a lot of history. It's a "know it when I see it" thing. There are also many examples of suburbs and gated communities that have a more neighborhood feel, but in general I'm not entirely convinced there isn't at least a little bit of natural distrust or fear that drives people to gated subdivisions.
I'll agree with fear ... fear of all the degenerates and lowlifes that tend to gravitate to Florida.
3) There is plenty of history in Florida. Florida has the earliest European settlement in the United States, and was the 27th state entered into the union. That means 23 other states are younger. Some areas of the state are older than others. Some neighborhoods have more history and character than others.
And some neighborhood characters have more history than others, lol.
There's something to be said for neighborhood camaraderie. It's nice to not have to drive somewhere and pull a chair and have an intelligent conversation with a neighbor while your kids run around with their kids. Haven't seen much of that in Central Florida, but maybe I'm in the wrong neighborhood.
Thanks for the life lesson, but I personally don't need it. I've lived in Europe, Australia, Canada, South America, and here and certainly know how to "adapt" to folks who don't have the same customs as me. Central Florida is definitely the least friendly place I've lived and I've spent quite a few years trying to figure out why. I certainly don't come off as a "complainer" like some and have made some decent friends down here. My current thinking is that most people down here don't want to make friends or be good neighbors as it's too much effort to invite someone over for dinner/cup of tea, pitch in on a block party, or just make a newcomer feel welcome. The U.S. in general could use a few lessons from Europeans and Australians in social skills.
Most of that post was not intended for you but there are many who need who need to be told such life lessons in how to move to a new place and not alienate people. Or that there are places in this world that are diverse areas in many ways...and those aren't just the "bad" areas.
And I assure you those "bad" neighbors you claim don't exist in Buffalo but do exist in Florida...they are there. You just never noticed them because you were busy living your life, going to work, seeing your family, going places of interest, etc. You never know...you may have been too busy to notice "you" were that "bad" neighbor for somebody else.
Ok, I live in the old folks city of Naples, but I AM old, yet I have NO common ground with these people
1 - They are mostly snowbirds, or retired. I work for a living, besides which I would never WANT to be a Snowbird. I actually LIKE the cold. I didn't move here for the weather.
2 - They don't like being around families. I work with children because I LIKE IT. I don't want to be around nobody but old people.
3 - They are constantly talking about all their illnesses. I am not sick, have never had an operation, and can still do most of what people half my age can.
4. They live in the PAST. While yes, I was alive way back when and remember what they do, I don't live in the past, especially the past of 30, 40, 50 years ago. Sorry, guys, too much water under the bridge. Ever hear of Justin Bieber, Amy Winehouse, SpongeBob? Blank stares.
5. God, Guns, and Gays. I stopped going to mass when I was 15 in catholic school. Guns? Ever see a bus driver shot in the head when you were 6 years old? Gays? I grew up in Greenwich Village and have had many OUT gay relatives, including my own daughter. I love, accept her, and believe she deserves the same rights as her straight sister to marry who SHE loves.
I could go on, but I think you get the picture. I would rather just live among people of ALL AGES, and POLITICAL views (as opposed to RED Naples) and just blend in, rather than be with "my own kind", in more ways than one.
Ok, I live in the old folks city of Naples, but I AM old, yet I have NO common ground with these people
Hmm...you might be an exception in many ways Jo. You should probably be in a more progressive area/city really. I'd say Miami or certain areas of Tampa would be a good fit. I know you prefer ALL political views...but you aren't likely to see much of that in Naples, in your age group from my experiences around the Naples area.
I have to say, I never was a fan of Naples from the admittedly limited time I spent there. I thought it was beautiful in some areas but I felt a have/have-not vibe there with almost no in between (or "regular" folks). This was about 12 years ago so perhaps its changed a little.
I have to laugh at Leftee's comments in regards to taking his daughter around to sell Girl Scout cookies and the blinds getting shut and the doors going unanswered.
So true, I feel the same way and have talked to others regarding the lack of a sense of community.
My area is all transplants so I can't blame native Floridians.
They live next door to people for 5 years and with the exception of a quick wave everyone is a stranger.
I think it has to do with the transient nature of FL. For example the house across the street has had 4 sets of owners in a little more than 10 yrs.
I have heard comments from why bother to get to know people because they may not stay or if they're old don't get friendly as they could die soon, or even worse might need your help with a ride to the store or to the doctor.
Lived in Oregon for a few years and while people are a little stand offish at first once they get to know you they're friendlier.
Doesn't mean you have to be best buddies, but this is the only place where I have seen so many people "unto themselves".
The cars pull into the driveway, the garage door goes up, and the people disappear. The few people I actually see out walking in the evening have a cell phone glued to their ear.
And I assure you those "bad" neighbors you claim don't exist in Buffalo but do exist in Florida...they are there. You just never noticed them because you were busy living your life, going to work, seeing your family, going places of interest, etc. You never know...you may have been too busy to notice "you" were that "bad" neighbor for somebody else.
That could well be ... though in Buffalo, when someone slides off the road in winter, several cars will stop and help assist getting that driver back on the road. If someone breaks down here in Florida, people look up from their cell phone conversation, curse because the disabled driver is blocking the road, and then go around without stopping to help. Sure, once in awhile you see a good Samaritan down here helping, but those cases are few and far between. My 80-year-old mother's neighbor plows her driveway in the winter FOR NOTHING !
I'm a pretty nice guy, lend a hand, etc. But I'm not sure I'd help somebody on the side of the road, unless I was absolutely sure it was a safe thing to do (ie. an old retired couple, or a woman, etc.) And I sure as hell wouldn't let my wife assist someone on the side of the road by herself.
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