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Old 09-02-2011, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Tampa
2,602 posts, read 7,181,730 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allenk893 View Post
Seeing as how it was the president's wise democratic ways that destroyed the economy...But I won't.
George Bush?
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Old 09-02-2011, 02:08 PM
 
2,490 posts, read 3,733,890 times
Reputation: 2871
Quote:
Originally Posted by seain dublin View Post
It is not as visible due to all the services that are now in place. There are more people receiving food stamps now than ever before.

We never had 99 weeks of UE benefits before.

If these services were cut things would look a lot different.

This recession/ depression is much worse as many of the jobs lost aren't coming back like they did in past economic downturns.

Unemployment is much higher than what is being reported.
Yes, this current recession is worse than all the ones after WWII. But during the Great Depression, average incomes fell 40% in only three years and the GDP fell by 25% or something close to that figure. This recession has sort of been cushioned by all the "stimulus" the govt has been doing the past few years, but all that money is starting to run out. I think if it hadn't been for the "stimulus" or whatever you want to call it, this recession would have been worse than the GD. The line graphs, when compared to the GD show that % wise, stock prices and GDP were falling almost linear at the same pace and at the same time.
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Old 09-02-2011, 02:10 PM
 
2,490 posts, read 3,733,890 times
Reputation: 2871
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenk893 View Post
Seeing as how it was the president's wise democratic ways that destroyed the economy...But I won't.
The economy started to take a downturn under Bush and crashed in 2008, before the elections. But Obama hasn't necessarily helped by overspending and increasing our deficit even further and at a quicker pace.
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Old 09-02-2011, 02:33 PM
 
6,293 posts, read 3,545,829 times
Reputation: 7183
Quote:
Originally Posted by seain dublin View Post
No it is a full on depression.

The only difference between the Great Depression and this one is food stamps, UE benefits, and other services that were not available in the 1930s.

And another round of foreclosures is coming.

"You ain't see nothing yet"...as the song says.
Recommended. No, it isn't like the Great Depression because we now have a safety net from FDR which didn't exist back then. Although I wasn't born then, I am old enough to have had parents and grandparents who did, and told me all about their first hand experiences then. My maternal Grandpa was a Wall Street Broker, who lost EVERYTHING, and had coworkers who "jumped". Yes, that was literally true. My paternal Grandpa took food out of garbage cans, etc., etc, to feed the family.

ONLY our social program safety nets, which some want to dismantel, is going to save us. Again, one branch of my family was not poor before the GD, but certainly WERE afterwards. If you are "well off", don't be so smug to think you are ABOVE THIS.
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Old 09-02-2011, 02:43 PM
 
817 posts, read 1,919,276 times
Reputation: 993
Quote:
Originally Posted by seain dublin View Post
It is not as visible due to all the services that are now in place. There are more people receiving food stamps now than ever before.

We never had 99 weeks of UE benefits before.

If these services were cut things would look a lot different.

This recession/ depression is much worse as many of the jobs lost aren't coming back like they did in past economic downturns.

Unemployment is much higher than what is being reported.
Google "U-6 Unemployment" or something like that and read about it. It is a measure that counts ALL people who are unemployed, who have given up looking, who have taken work that pays less than they are used to getting, etc. It basically counts EVERYONE that has been negatively affected by unemployment, so it counts EVERYONE.

As I said, this measure during the Great Depression was estimated to have been almost three times as high as the peak of this recession.

And as was pointed out above, incomes and real economic worth dropped MUCH worse than has happened in this economy.

I am not trying to make light of this recession, but it is nowhere NEAR as bad as the Great Depression was. Now, this COULD have been like that, but fortunately that was averted.

If our economy cratered like in the Great Depression, there would rioting in the streets, and I mean that literally.
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Old 09-02-2011, 03:07 PM
 
6,293 posts, read 3,545,829 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin from Tampa View Post
Google "U-6 Unemployment" or something like that and read about it. It is a measure that counts ALL people who are unemployed, who have given up looking, who have taken work that pays less than they are used to getting, etc. It basically counts EVERYONE that has been negatively affected by unemployment, so it counts EVERYONE.

As I said, this measure during the Great Depression was estimated to have been almost three times as high as the peak of this recession.

And as was pointed out above, incomes and real economic worth dropped MUCH worse than has happened in this economy.

I am not trying to make light of this recession, but it is nowhere NEAR as bad as the Great Depression was. Now, this COULD have been like that, but fortunately that was averted.

If our economy cratered like in the Great Depression, there would rioting in the streets, and I mean that literally.
There was no Minimum Wage back then. End that to "compete" with China, India, etc., to create jobs and "compete" with them and watch wages and wealth distribution widen. Can you say ellimination of the middle class? That was what happened in the Great Depression. There were the poor and the wealthy, and nothing in between. The policies of the New Deal advanced the Middle Class. No riots in the streets? Philly immediately comes to mind. Ever hear of London? The Great Depression did not just hit the USA. It was world wide.
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Old 09-02-2011, 05:41 PM
 
16,990 posts, read 20,591,236 times
Reputation: 33956
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
Recommended. No, it isn't like the Great Depression because we now have a safety net from FDR which didn't exist back then. Although I wasn't born then, I am old enough to have had parents and grandparents who did, and told me all about their first hand experiences then. My maternal Grandpa was a Wall Street Broker, who lost EVERYTHING, and had coworkers who "jumped". Yes, that was literally true. My paternal Grandpa took food out of garbage cans, etc., etc, to feed the family.

ONLY our social program safety nets, which some want to dismantel, is going to save us. Again, one branch of my family was not poor before the GD, but certainly WERE afterwards. If you are "well off", don't be so smug to think you are ABOVE THIS.
You need to learn how to read. Where did I say there was anything wrong with safety nets?

I'm pointing out why we're not seeing the desperation that was prevalent in the `1930s.

If they were not in place you would be seeing soup lines like in the 30s.

As it is churches are now seeing the "new poor", previously middle class families who due to job loss needing help.

"60 Minutes" did a piece on central FL and there are now so many families living in cheap motels that schools have official bus stops at the motels.

Very sad.
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Old 09-02-2011, 05:47 PM
 
6,293 posts, read 3,545,829 times
Reputation: 7183
Quote:
Originally Posted by seain dublin View Post
You need to learn how to read. Where did I say there was anything wrong with safety nets?

I'm pointing out why we're not seeing the desperation that was prevalent in the `1930s.

If they were not in place you would be seeing soup lines like in the 30s.

As it is churches are now seeing the "new poor", previously middle class families who due to job loss needing help.

"60 Minutes" did a piece on central FL and there are now so many families living in cheap motels that schools have official bus stops at the motels.

Very sad.
You missed the first word (Recommended) of my post. I was just expanding on what you said.
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Old 09-02-2011, 07:17 PM
 
817 posts, read 1,919,276 times
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This is not as bad...not anywhere CLOSE to as bad...as the Great Depression.

Now, many govt programs may have prevented this from being that bad....it's hard to tell if that is the case...but if any of you have actually studied this, you would know it to be true.

First of all, the first recessionary period in the Great Depression last almost 4 YEARS....43 months in total. The recessionary period that we went through was 17 months. In addition, there was a second recessionary period during the Great Depression that lasted 13 months...a double dip, as we would refer to it now.

During the period from about 1930 to 1941, unemployment (what we would refer to as the U-3 today) never fell below about 17%. The worst U-3 we've experienced in this recession was around 10.1%. At its peak, the Great Depression saw a U-3 of almost 30%. Keep in mind, as I just said, that unemployment during the Great Depression NEVER fell below about 17% for more than 10 YEARS.

And as I said above, the U-6....the measure that counts EVERYONE that was affected by unemployment in some way, is estimated to have been around 45%. The U-6 today peaked at around 17%....not even close.

GDP in the Great Depression dropped over 26%, and then fell another 18% in the second recession of the 1930. GDP in this recession dropped around 5%....again, not even close.

Personal income in this recession fell a little less than 1% during the first year of the recent recession. In the first year of the Great Depression, personal income fell almost 12 PERCENT.

Now, some people in this thread are contending that govt aid is keeping this from being as bad as the Great Depression....maybe, but that's hard to know. What we DO know is, this economy is not anywhere NEAR as bad as the Great Depression. I know it's not easy to hear that if you're unemployed and being foreclosed on, but it's the truth.

Some people have said this economic situation may be new "norm"....something we haven't seen before...but something like Japan's "Lost Decade" of the 90s....or the Long Depression of the late 1800s....but a new Great Depression? Not even close.
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Old 09-02-2011, 08:19 PM
 
Location: Central FL
1,382 posts, read 3,258,423 times
Reputation: 1181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin from Tampa View Post
Google "U-6 Unemployment" or something like that and read about it. It is a measure that counts ALL people who are unemployed, who have given up looking, who have taken work that pays less than they are used to getting, etc. It basically counts EVERYONE that has been negatively affected by unemployment, so it counts EVERYONE.

As I said, this measure during the Great Depression was estimated to have been almost three times as high as the peak of this recession.

And as was pointed out above, incomes and real economic worth dropped MUCH worse than has happened in this economy.

I am not trying to make light of this recession, but it is nowhere NEAR as bad as the Great Depression was. Now, this COULD have been like that, but fortunately that was averted.

If our economy cratered like in the Great Depression, there would rioting in the streets, and I mean that literally.
The problem is NOTHING has been avoided - it has merely been covered up with a band-aid and now the blood is starting to ooze out from under there. We're about the bleed out and we have no band aids left.

If we allowed things to crash back in 2008, it would have been brutal, BUT we would have been well on our way to a healthy economy now. Instead, we are in deep trouble, and we blew our one shot on bailing out the banks that should have been allowed to fail so that new banks could form and act responsibly (for awhile at least).

46 million folks on food stamps. (and growing) Tens of millions on SS disability. Millions behind on their mortgage. 30% of kids "food insecure" in my county. 2,200 homeless kids in my county. Unemployment benefits running out for millions. Tent cities.

The worst is yet to come - when the government money runs out. Then we will have rioting in the streets.
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