[lumina]

Hi all,
My husband and I are flying down from NH to WPB this weekend for job interviews. We'll be settling in Traditions PSL - going to look at lots this weekend.

Home ownership in FL is much different than in NH - I've never had a landscaper or pool service, sprinklers, hurricane shutters, planned communities, pest control, etc. so there are many new details to think about.

Questions re: home-buying in Tradition:
1. Can you negotiate pricing with builders (the add-ons, the actual house price)?

2. PSL Oldtimer wrote a wonderful response regarding appraisals and builder financing (I cannot find at this time) - any comments? Homestead?


3. Anybody currently living in Tradition (LingLing?) with actual experience and insight regarding property-care, events, vibe, things to do, shopping, adequate health-care, fire/police?


We're so looking forward to this moving adventure.
Thanks in advance for your help.

BTW: we lived in South FL for 6 years in 90's so I've got a feel for the place - eyes wide open. We've visited and travelled about to decide on location for this current move down. Comparing NH and FL is like comparing apples/oranges - both States but with very different personalities, vibe, culture, etc. Both have their downsides/upsides . . . we've been paying $200,000 for 900 s.f. condos for years so housing prices don't scare us.

[Prichard]

I don't know anything about that area. But, you better believe that you can negotiate with Builders! In fact you would be borderline foolish not to negotiate with a homebuilder. However, you better be very well schooled on what you want, what you absolutely need, what are reasonable and unreasonable expectations, etc.

For example, most people think "negoitiation" is all about price. But, as people are focused on "price" they don't know about all of the ways builders can cut corners. They don't know hot to get exactly what they want from a builder. They let the builder sell them a "floor plan" with a bunch of gobbly goop language in the contract that basically lets them build whatever they want, whenever they want and charge you for all kinds of extras and overages. So, most people would probably tell you to go consult with a lawyer before entering into contracts with builders, but I'll tell you that most lawyers don't have a clue what to look for or how to control a builder. A lawyer might help you some, but if you have a friend in your state that is an honest building contractor and a true friend of yours, you might want to pay him a few bucks for consultation. Another way is to find a good quality new-home inspection company and pay them for consultation before signing anything - HECK, BEFORE EVEN TALKING TO THE BUILDING COMPANY!. In fact, I'd probably have a good lawyer and a good contractor/inspector in a room together to guide you through this to minimize the "screwing" you may be getting set up for.

By the way, no one ever does the above. More than 80% of the people just sign whatever the smooth talking, big breasted sales lady puts in front of them (don't think you are actually dealing with the guy with the GC license). Maybe 19.5% of the people will take the papers to some lawyer to review them, which is probably some help, but which could also make the builder simply say "NEXT...".

Having a house built, or buying anything pre-construction is a total gamble, with the odds heavily weighted against you, unless you are the equivilent of a professional card counter. I hate to be so doom-&-gloom about this, but those are the facts as I see them.

[LingLing]

Hi, Lumina,
Questions re: home-buying in Tradition:
1. Can you negotiate pricing with builders (the add-ons, the actual house price)?
You definitely can. If I were you, I will try to get hurricane impact windows from builders as add-on. When we were buying, we only checked three communities, the Lake (Divosta), Townpark (Minto) and Estate (Toll Brother).
a. Estate is out of our price range. And a lot of lots back against each other. In addition, a walking trail is behind each home so kids can play safe. I don’t like it because of privacy. The community center only has a pool.
b. The price of houses in Townpark has come down a lot since we bought. A lot of floor plans to choose from. Almost all their houses are two stories. I believe the community center will have everything (pool, gym, tennis ball court, basket ball..).
c. We bought at the Lake. Builder has sold all the single family homes. No two story home. There are plenty of resales listed on the market. We chose here because we want a single story home, easy to clean and maintain during hurricane. Almost all the homes are on the lake. No neighbor behind. The community center has gym, family pool, lap pool, basket ball court, four tennis courts with stadium seats….

2. PSL Oldtimer wrote a wonderful response regarding appraisals and builder financing (I cannot find at this time) - any comments? Homestead?


3. Anybody currently living in Tradition (LingLing?) with actual experience and insight regarding property-care, events, vibe, things to do, shopping, adequate health-care, fire/police?
a. Lake HOA is responsible for all landscape and sprinkler system so we don’t do anything in our yard. Pool, I paid $60/month to have someone taking care it for me. If you call a local pool store, they will come to show you how to do it yourself (no charge), so you can save that $60 dollars. I hear it is very simple.
b. Events. Tradition town center has all kinds events(Jazz..). Check on their website (Tradition: Your kind of town - Port St. Lucie, Florida). Our community has all sorts of clubs, card club, majian club, crap book club, book club, swim club, dog club,.. (I am an immigrant so I don’t know what some of clubs do). The email system works very efficiently to notify us all the club events.
I have to go to work now. Anyone who lives here, please help!!! (Ooand1??)

[hangglide99]

Do you know how many millions of dollars have been lost by naive people stumbling into snake pits...er...builders sales centers? All kinds of people have paid too much...Educated, non-educated, smart, non-smart, rich, poor etc.

Here is what you should do, Find and use (exclusively) a Realtor who will negotiate on your behalf. Often times, Realtors will have good working relationships with Builders and can save thousands of dollars for you, and negotiate better terms and conditions. You'll pay nothing to a Realtor for their expertise, but will save money.

Not using a Realtor is kinda like being served papers, and walking into the office of your opponents attorney and asking them what you should do.

What to look for in a good Realtor? You'll want someone who will not be afraid to negotiate for you...therefore, if an agent asks you to sign an exclusive buyers agreement (where if you decide to purchase, you agree to use that realtor) my advice would be to use that Realtor...because they'll negotiate for you. Many buyers agents are afraid to ask their buyers to sign this form. If an agent is afraid to ask you for something, will they ask the even tougher questions of the seller?

Some builders tactics to be wary of:
5k, 10k, or any other sum of money that they'll "give" you for closing costs if you use their lender and title company. These incentives aren't always bad, but nothing is free and the costs will be built back into their fees, rates etc. When you purchase, ask your Realtor to advise you, and always seek other competitive mortgage/title company bids. In a resale, the seller pays for the closing fees/title search etc and they usually decide the title company/closing company. When buying from a builder, you'll usually pay for those fees, so you should decide. One reason for not going with the "approved lender, title company" is because if you're having second thoughts...or...if the builder wants you to close with significant items still unfinished (with promises to fix later) you'll be well advised to stand your ground and refuse to close until the fixes are completed. I'm not talking minor cosmetic things, but the horror stories I hear are prevalent. If you use their lender/title company, then they'll leverage those entities against you into pressuring you to close when the home is not ready.

You can get a good deal if you buy an inventory home, one that is costing the developer money each month. Another thing to avoid, don't sign any paperwork authorizing the builder/developer to use your escrow deposit for any part of the financing of the project (I've seen this in Orlando, and have spoken to many furious investors who lost money by not having their money held safely in escrow).

[LingLing]

In my last post, I mean "Scrapbook club" not "crap book club"..haha.. What can I say? English is not my first language. I will write more when I have time. I remember someone commented on my writing here "My grammar and my keyboard are cousins..." I don't understand the meaning. Luckily, I have professional writers who edit my writing for my publications.

[lumina]

Thank you for your insightful replies. Getting on a plane at 4am tomorrow I appreciate your candor and detail. I will reread this thread on the plane when my energy level is a bit lower and I can concentrate! Be well.

[pslOldTimer]

Hangglide99:

Your advice is the most ridiculous thing I have heard from a real estate agent. The result would be to have commission tacked on on top of the house price, not to save any money. You must be desperate for income to suggest it.

But, worst of all, is sticking your nose in where it doesn't belong. Tradition is not even close to West Palm Beach. Stick to what you know.

[JimKing]

My best friend's mother has been in real estate in Port Saint Lucie for 35 years and says she has never seen such a scary market. Going forward 1,2,5 years there is nothing but tough times coming. Prices are going down, down, down over the next 5 years.

Why not get a nice rental, take your time, really become an expert on that market by living there a year and renting?

Landlords in Port St. Lucie are negotiating big time. They are offering low deposits, letting buyers check that mortgages are current, keeping deposits safely in escrow. I know this because she owns 10 rentals in PSL and her son another 5.

I see no reason to buy in that area without renting for at least a year and really getting to know the market, the builders, the whole deal.

[hangglide99]

Originally Posted by pslOldTimer

Hangglide99:

Your advice is the most ridiculous thing I have heard from a real estate agent. The result would be to have commission tacked on on top of the house price, not to save any money. You must be desperate for income to suggest it.

But, worst of all, is sticking your nose in where it doesn't belong. Tradition is not even close to West Palm Beach. Stick to what you know.

You're putting out some nasty negativity, good job.

I have worked for this countries largest production builder, DR Horton, and for a high end custom builder, Arthur Rutenberg. I have sold pre-construction when the market was sizzling, and condo conversions when the market was turning. Never, and I mean Never, have I seen an unrepresented person save money by not having an agent at their side. But I'm sure that you are the exception, huh.

Anyone with an 8th grade reading comprehension level would have seen that I referenced Orlando, and said nothing specific about Tradition or WPB...my advice was freely given from my perspective as a working professional with experience as a builders rep and an independent contractor.

Smile today

[lumina]

Thank you all for your replies. My husband and I found a realtor, put an offer in for a house and will be down by Oct. 1st if all goes well.