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Old 11-01-2011, 11:56 PM
 
4,093 posts, read 3,594,216 times
Reputation: 3826

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatornation View Post
Many public employees are just a lot more educated than those in private sector. More education means more money.
I disagree with the exception of public employees in the education/law field.

Think of how many public employees work at the courthouse (not the lawyers/judges but the clerks/cashiers etc), public works, DOT, correctional facilities, etc.

I would be shocked if 30% of public employees had a 4 yr degree or better (excluding education, lawyers, judges where it is required). Yes there are scientists, engineers out there but the masses are not.
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Old 11-02-2011, 06:31 AM
 
5,507 posts, read 5,739,265 times
Reputation: 2225
Quote:
Originally Posted by City Guy997S View Post
I disagree with the exception of public employees in the education/law field.

Think of how many public employees work at the courthouse (not the lawyers/judges but the clerks/cashiers etc), public works, DOT, correctional facilities, etc.

I would be shocked if 30% of public employees had a 4 yr degree or better (excluding education, lawyers, judges where it is required). Yes there are scientists, engineers out there but the masses are not.
Studies showed the statistics in Wisconsin when they had their issues. There were almost double the amount of public workers with a degree compared to private.

http://www.epi.org/publication/are_w...r-compensated/

Private doesn't mean only corporations. We are talking fast food/construction/etc.
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Old 11-02-2011, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Central FL
1,382 posts, read 2,041,725 times
Reputation: 1152
It's ironic that the field of education is pretty much the only field where you are discouraged from pursuing your own higher education!

Lawmakers are eager to ban extra pay for Master's degrees for teachers. (so much for LOCAL control).

Meanwhile, many corporations still pay at least a portion of the actual tuition for their own employees to obtain degrees and professional development.

Teachers have to pay for their own criminal background checks and drug tests when hired. (show me a private company that does that - I haven't seen one yet).

Teachers have to pay hundreds of dollars to add subject areas and to renew their teaching certificates.

Even working as a sub, you have to pay $80 to get set up in my district. That is more than an entire day's sub pay.

On the subject of the pension: teachers are forced to pay in, yet have ZERO control over how the money is invested. At least with a 401(k), you have a choice of investments. With the pension, it's "trust us" and hope for the best.

Anyone who thinks today's younger teachers/ gov't workers will ever see a dime of pension payouts hasn't been paying attention to anything that has happened since 2008.
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Old 11-02-2011, 10:52 AM
 
5,507 posts, read 5,739,265 times
Reputation: 2225
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovedfromFL View Post
It's ironic that the field of education is pretty much the only field where you are discouraged from pursuing your own higher education!

Lawmakers are eager to ban extra pay for Master's degrees for teachers. (so much for LOCAL control).

Meanwhile, many corporations still pay at least a portion of the actual tuition for their own employees to obtain degrees and professional development.

Teachers have to pay for their own criminal background checks and drug tests when hired. (show me a private company that does that - I haven't seen one yet).

Teachers have to pay hundreds of dollars to add subject areas and to renew their teaching certificates.

Even working as a sub, you have to pay $80 to get set up in my district. That is more than an entire day's sub pay.

On the subject of the pension: teachers are forced to pay in, yet have ZERO control over how the money is invested. At least with a 401(k), you have a choice of investments. With the pension, it's "trust us" and hope for the best.

Anyone who thinks today's younger teachers/ gov't workers will ever see a dime of pension payouts hasn't been paying attention to anything that has happened since 2008.
Can always switch to investment plan worst case.
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Old 11-02-2011, 04:19 PM
 
1,495 posts, read 693,026 times
Reputation: 2154
You can only switch from a pension to an "investment" plan ONCE in your employment history. The fact still remains that all those state employees who had that 3% contribution taken out, and which is now declared illegal, cannot get their money back. "We SPENT IT", is what Scott and the legislators are now saying. How would you private business workers like it if your employers said the same? We spent YOUR MONEY and you cannot have it back. Would YOU be furious?
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Old 11-02-2011, 05:44 PM
 
5,355 posts, read 5,663,914 times
Reputation: 5442
What about folks that pay their 3% each year, but lose employment prior to being vested? Is it 5 years to be vested, or longer? What if they are laid off after 4 years. Do they get their 12% back?
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Old 11-02-2011, 07:08 PM
 
Location: Niceville, FL
4,687 posts, read 8,698,661 times
Reputation: 3328
Quote:
Originally Posted by sware2cod View Post
What about folks that pay their 3% each year, but lose employment prior to being vested? Is it 5 years to be vested, or longer? What if they are laid off after 4 years. Do they get their 12% back?
This was part of the logic for putting the retirement amount straight into FRS rather than giving it to the employee in additional wages and then doing a mandatory deduction. As long as that amount of money never hit the paycheck proper, the state can just say 'sorry, not gonna give you your money back, but you still have X years of service credit toward vesting and if you ever have another employer that participates in FRS you can get to vesting from that job" (You can only actually lose a pension or service years if you end up being convicted of certain job-related felonies or you participate in an illegal strike). And if you never get around to vesting in the plan or die before retirement, the state gets to keep that money.

If you do a paycheck passthrough, then the state might end up having to give it back if a person leaves the system before vesting. Or at least that was one of the reasons for leaving FRS as it is for so long.
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Old 11-02-2011, 08:59 PM
 
Location: Tampa, FL
3,238 posts, read 2,067,900 times
Reputation: 1492
Quote:
Originally Posted by sware2cod View Post
What about folks that pay their 3% each year, but lose employment prior to being vested? Is it 5 years to be vested, or longer? What if they are laid off after 4 years. Do they get their 12% back?
Something the idiots completely failed to address when they made the legislation, and another reason the law will be overturned...
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Old 11-03-2011, 08:39 AM
 
Location: Florida
109 posts, read 192,197 times
Reputation: 269
The SBA just released the preliminary figures showing the growth of the state retirement fund. It increased by more than 19 BILLION dollars, to a total of 128 billion. It only paid out 4.6 billion to retirees. And these figures are only up until the month of June. It wasn't until JULY that the employees had to contribute.

This just goes to show you that the governor was a complete liar when he scared the public into believing the retirement fund was broke. It made 19 billion dollars in a year, but yet he claimed that the government employees were causing it to implode unless they contributed %3 to it. And of course, we later found out that the contribution wasn't even going to the retirement fund any way. Sorry, to me it was nothing more than blatant theft.
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Old 11-03-2011, 10:43 AM
 
Location: Central FL
1,382 posts, read 2,041,725 times
Reputation: 1152
The FRS is one of the absolute best-funded sytems in the US right now. We were nowhere near "in trouble".

Regarding leaving employment before you are vested: As I understand it, the plan MUST refund the employee's contributions. My husband used to teach in Georgia and when we moved away, he received a refund of his entire contribution from the 4 years. (I'm not sure on this, but it might also include interest earned as well)

In the Florida plan, we have already switched to the investment plan. That's the only way for an employee to position himself to 'cash out' his vested amount. We will definately be leaving FL at some point soon. Although my husband is vested, the payout after 10 years of service would be paltry amount, starting in about 20 years (think about a $40 a month pension, paid 20 years from now. We'd be lucky to buy a pack of gum.) So we chose to move to the investment plan, and then cash it out. $9,000 now is worth a LOT more than the pension stream in 20 years.

As I understand it, the 3% that is now being taken out of his check would also be refunded when we move away. (just like in GA). The plan has to refund YOUR contributions if you terminate employment.

THIS mess WILL serve to destabilize the pension plan. Scott has made it worse, not better, with this change.
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