[TampaKaren]

I don't care how you spin the numbers, I do not believe HSR would be profitable within that timeframe unless it was the only mode of transportation. Renting an auto is cheaper and it provides greater flexibility for tourists. Negotiations between Orange- and Pinellas counties would have made more sense to me considering very few have Tampa as their primary vacation destination.

[boxus]

Originally Posted by TriMT7

Why would navigating a bus or trolley system be any less cumbersome than a train system?



Yesterday I filled my tank for $3.85/gallon. There's no reason to believe those prices are going anywhere but up in the decades to come. A drive from Tampa to West Palm Beach is now more expensive than an Amtrack ticket ($58/roundtrip). I-95 through south FLorida is just about "maxed out" in terms of expansion opportunities.

And, regional air service between cities in Florida is a major hassle.




We have to deal with the fact that mass transit projects will have to adapt to the car-centric culture of American cities. A major high speed rail line would spur development of intermodal mass transit, because it would create additional demand.

"Why would navigating a bus or trolley system be any less cumbersome than a train system?"

Because the train will be from point A to point B, whereas a bus system is a zig zag of inefficiency. This is not Miami specific, this is a US thing. Heck, in colelge it would take 45 minutes on a bus just to to the same as a 20 minute drive. US mass trans sucks, there is not even anything to debate about that in my opinion. After living overseas for many years, I realize even more how much it sucks. I am a mass tranit fan, I even live in Brickell and walk to work, so it is not like I have some bias against it.

"Yesterday I filled my tank for $3.85/gallon. There's no reason to believe those prices are going anywhere but up in the decades to come. A drive from Tampa to West Palm Beach is now more expensive than an Amtrack ticket ($58/roundtrip). I-95 through south FLorida is just about "maxed out" in terms of expansion opportunities.:"

Make it even $5 a gallon, the train still would not be cost efficient. Why? Because even after getting from Tampa to WPB, a person still will need to pay and use up valuable time getting around. At the end of the day, they will see the obvious that renting a car (or driving their own) in the first place would have saved the hassle and allowed flexibility, plus time savings. Look back at their trip and state "for an extra fifty bucks, we could have had a car and skip all the mass tranit hassle".

I would love for a mass tranit system here, my I used it every day overseas and know that Japan's and most of Europe's systems puts ours to shame it terms of costs, ease of use, and the efficiency of it. I can, without even knowing the langauge, dit-dot aorund to almost every square centimeter of Europe without so much a hassle or much of a wait. I tried the mass transit thing here in a few places and what a joke, heck, my co-worker takes an hour and 15 mintues to get to work via bus on what should be a 30 minute trip, and the bus does not run during the day, just morning and evenings.

So yes, build the rail, but it will just start and end in places that do not have an efficient mass trans structure, and at the end of the day, a simple car would be either cheaper, cost the same, or cost more but knowing that extra cost allowed mroe flexibility, time savings, and less hassle than the train.

[FloridaKash]

Originally Posted by TriMT7

Why would navigating a bus or trolley system be any less cumbersome than a train system?



Yesterday I filled my tank for $3.85/gallon. There's no reason to believe those prices are going anywhere but up in the decades to come. A drive from Tampa to West Palm Beach is now more expensive than an Amtrack ticket ($58/roundtrip).

Yes, that may be, but only applies if only one person is in the car. A family of 5 is much cheaper to drive than ride a train.

[chopchop0]

Originally Posted by boxus

"Why would navigating a bus or trolley system be any less cumbersome than a train system?"

Because the train will be from point A to point B, whereas a bus system is a zig zag of inefficiency. This is not Miami specific, this is a US thing. Heck, in colelge it would take 45 minutes on a bus just to to the same as a 20 minute drive. US mass trans sucks, there is not even anything to debate about that in my opinion. After living overseas for many years, I realize even more how much it sucks. I am a mass tranit fan, I even live in Brickell and walk to work, so it is not like I have some bias against it.

"Yesterday I filled my tank for $3.85/gallon. There's no reason to believe those prices are going anywhere but up in the decades to come. A drive from Tampa to West Palm Beach is now more expensive than an Amtrack ticket ($58/roundtrip). I-95 through south FLorida is just about "maxed out" in terms of expansion opportunities.:"

Make it even $5 a gallon, the train still would not be cost efficient. Why? Because even after getting from Tampa to WPB, a person still will need to pay and use up valuable time getting around. At the end of the day, they will see the obvious that renting a car (or driving their own) in the first place would have saved the hassle and allowed flexibility, plus time savings. Look back at their trip and state "for an extra fifty bucks, we could have had a car and skip all the mass tranit hassle".

I would love for a mass tranit system here, my I used it every day overseas and know that Japan's and most of Europe's systems puts ours to shame it terms of costs, ease of use, and the efficiency of it. I can, without even knowing the langauge, dit-dot aorund to almost every square centimeter of Europe without so much a hassle or much of a wait. I tried the mass transit thing here in a few places and what a joke, heck, my co-worker takes an hour and 15 mintues to get to work via bus on what should be a 30 minute trip, and the bus does not run during the day, just morning and evenings.

So yes, build the rail, but it will just start and end in places that do not have an efficient mass trans structure, and at the end of the day, a simple car would be either cheaper, cost the same, or cost more but knowing that extra cost allowed mroe flexibility, time savings, and less hassle than the train.

Nailed it

[IAm_FloridaBorn]

I was in favor for it but now I'm disappointed we did not get it. it would have done wonders for Tampa and orlando . Dick scott..

[randian]

Originally Posted by kyle19125

Heaven forbid anything progressive emerge from Governor Ricky's governorship.

High-speed rail would have been profitable, state report says | TBO.com

Since when has a cost report done by a rail authority ever been anything but a fraud? Millions of riders a year? Not in this universe.

Trains are a horrible way to move people. They're inflexible, inconvenient, and incredibly overpriced for such a task.

[tonyff67]

It's funny, I have never met anyone from a city with good mass transit that is against a rail system. It seems to be people that have never experienced a good mass transit system that are against.

[boxus]

I have lived in two of the mass trans capitals of the world; London and Tokyo. I lived a few years throughout Europe. Their system as I have outlined in this thread is far better than ours could ever dreamed of being unless some drastic changes are made, both in city structure and culture. Simply having the mindset of "build it and they will come" will lead to nothing but wasted costs, which will then give even more negativity to future mass transit plans.

[chopchop0]

Originally Posted by tonyff67

It's funny, I have never met anyone from a city with good mass transit that is against a rail system. It seems to be people that have never experienced a good mass transit system that are against.

Considering there is not a good mass transit system in place in most of FL, then you shouldn't be surprised that many of us are against it

FL was designed with cars in mind. The focus should be on improving and widening existing infrastructure and improving the fuel efficiency of vehicles

[boxus]

I am for a mass trans plans, I just think the current proposals are garbage and a waste of money, and will be yet another money hole. The people proposing these plans seem like they have zero clue as to what a synchronized mass transit system is, just looking at the metromover here in Miami can tell me that.