[The Raven]

Originally Posted by TXRyan23

I'm fine with the government imposing a property tax. That property tax pays for the services that you and I use on a daily basis. I've heard the argument, even in this thread, that not everyone pays for these services, but like you said, everyone has to have somewhere to live, and in a round about way, even renters pay their property tax.

Well, using that "rock-solid logic" you could say the government should tax everything. It's one thing for me to pay for my share of services, and something altogether different for me to pay for my share, the share of many other families, and part of the share of some of the most wealthy homeowners in the area, who managed to get in under the wire under SOH, so renters (all renters) and new arrivals to florida would end up picking up much of their share of the property tax burden.

And the only people who don't pay property taxes are people who don't own homes and/or don't pay rent...essentially welfare recipients are the only people in that situation. Everyone else is paying property taxes. And unfortunately, many Florida residents are paying far more than their fair share.

[The Raven]

Originally Posted by annerk

I think that there's something far more worrisome--a massive increase in food prices given the mid west heat and drought this year. Indiana has lost over 90% of it's corn crop, farmers are sending cattle to slaughter because they can't afford to feed them, and the heat has caused dairy cows to produce less milk. The corn issue is that biggest, corn and it's by-products are in everything from the soda you're sipping on to the shampoo you washed your hair with this morning.

Yeah, it's a shame we drive up the cost of grain with that ridiculous "ethanol" program. That costs consumers a lot of money at the grocery store, more money at the pump, more money when they pay their taxes, and even more money for the repair of virtually every engine they own that burns it.

[chopchop0]

Originally Posted by The Raven

Yeah, it's a shame we drive up the cost of grain with that ridiculous "ethanol" program. That costs consumers a lot of money at the grocery store, more money at the pump, more money when they pay their taxes, and even more money for the repair of virtually every engine they own that burns it.

It's another giveaway to farmers though. They are making a killing on corn between that and all of the crap that contains HFCS

[The Raven]

Originally Posted by chopchop0

It's another giveaway to farmers though. They are making a killing on corn between that and all of the crap that contains HFCS

Oh, the farmers are certainly making a lot of money off the corn they sell for ethanol. But the big problem is that the purpose of the ethanol program was supposedly that we would be saving "fossil fuel" buy using ethanol, and it takes a gallon of regular gas to produce a gallon of ethanol. At the end of this Orwellian mind-job you pay for two gallons of gas just to use one in your car. And you get worse mileage out of that gallon of ethanol than you would have had buring the gallon of regular gas it took to produce it.

[beachmouse]

I find myself somewhat hoping that the corn prices go high enough that it makes sense in many cases to move from high fructose corn syrup back to cane or beet sugar as a sweetener.

[Mike1306]

Originally Posted by annerk

Bottom line, the cap on taxes hasn't kept pace with the average workers raises in income. And frankly, someone's choice of career and how that affects their long term pay isn't my concern nor should it be the concern of government when it comes to property taxes. Look at every other state in this country--there are no special perks just because you've lived there for awhile. You pay your share based on the assessment value of your home, and everyone pays the same rate.

Every other state? Many have similar property tax caps so maybe you should look at every other state.

I also never brought up someones career choices.

[FloridaHappy]

Originally Posted by The Raven

And the only people who don't pay property taxes are people who don't own homes and/or don't pay rent...essentially welfare recipients are the only people in that situation. Everyone else is paying property taxes. And unfortunately, many Florida residents are paying far more than their fair share.

Wrong. How about the 400+ churches in Marion County alone? They buy up prime commercial property, plop a church on it, and take that land out of the tax base. The Catholic church in Dunnellon is a multimillion dollar facility sitting on 10 prime acres and they're always having some kind of money-making thing going on, fairs, dinners, dances, fish dinners, bingo, etc. They're a business, just like Walmart, and they should be paying taxes on the property other than maybe the land the church itself sits on.

The state widened Hwy 41 through Dunnellon and put in a fancy turnout into the Catholic church there. The church paid $87 in property taxes last year, on what I'm not sure, but I'm sure that went a long way toward paying for that stretch of pavement. And, oh, there are police officers stationed there every Sunday to direct traffic out of that facility. Who pays for that?

It's time for the churches to pick up their share of the school taxes, at least. I know you're all going to come back and tell me how much great good they do, but that doesn't buy books for your precious children. Where are these fancy churches when you have beggars on every corner in Ocala?

I do feel I'm paying "more than my fair share" when I see these so-called churches, some of which are really weird, paying not a dime in property taxes. Hmmm...are these churches collecting and remitting sales tax on their sales of stuff? There's a sales tax on a purchase in a restaurant, are the churches remitting this when they have fish fries and barbecue sales?

[TXRyan23]

Originally Posted by The Raven

And the only people who don't pay property taxes are people who don't own homes and/or don't pay rent...essentially welfare recipients are the only people in that situation. Everyone else is paying property taxes. And unfortunately, many Florida residents are paying far more than their fair share.

essentially, people that have the section 8 voucher (welfare) are having their rent paid by the federal government, SO... technically, they ARE paying property taxes, it's just not their money. The state still collects those funds.

Floridians, for example, that live in Boca Raton, FL, are paying more in property taxes than Floridians that live in Lake Wales, FL. It's a fact of life, if your property is worth MORE, you're going to pay MORE in taxes. It's not rocket science.

[The Raven]

Originally Posted by FloridaHappy

Wrong. How about the 400+ churches in Marion County alone? They buy up prime commercial property, plop a church on it, and take that land out of the tax base. The Catholic church in Dunnellon is a multimillion dollar facility sitting on 10 prime acres and they're always having some kind of money-making thing going on, fairs, dinners, dances, fish dinners, bingo, etc. They're a business, just like Walmart, and they should be paying taxes on the property other than maybe the land the church itself sits on.

We were discussing private property and the taxation of that property. Yes, churches don't pay property taxes. But there are lots of non-profits that own property, generate income, and don't pay property taxzes. I don't see the point of singling out Churches and ignoring the rest. If you're consistent you're saying that the ACLU, the NAACP, the Boy Scouts of America, Autism Speaks, and American Cancer Society...all of which own property and generate income...should be paying property taxes.

If you want to venture into non-profits and other organizations that hold property without paying property taxes you also have to include government-owned property. Government is also a "money-making" venture.



We're getting off topic here. Are you being ridiculous for the sake of being rediciculous? Or do you really favor forcing all non-profits to pay taxes?

[The Raven]

Originally Posted by TXRyan23

essentially, people that have the section 8 voucher (welfare) are having their rent paid by the federal government, SO... technically, they ARE paying property taxes, it's just not their money. The state still collects those funds.

Floridians, for example, that live in Boca Raton, FL, are paying more in property taxes than Floridians that live in Lake Wales, FL. It's a fact of life, if your property is worth MORE, you're going to pay MORE in taxes. It's not rocket science.

No, they're not paying property taxes. Those of us who earn money and pay taxes are covering the costs of the taxes on that property.

And the government doens't pay for anything. The government doesn't generate value. Taxpayers pay for all the "generosity" of government. The government only serves as a conduit between the producers they take money from and the recipient of "the check" the government writes. If the productive sector of the US citizenry stopped paying their taxes the govenment wouldn't have two dimes to rub together.