U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Florida
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 04-19-2014, 06:11 PM
 
Location: Lakewood Ranch, FL
5,311 posts, read 8,127,264 times
Reputation: 6376

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryWho? View Post
No, I'm not saying that at all. What I'm saying is that context is important in any debate. I really have no strong opinions about gun ownership either way. I do know that what should be abundantly clear, is often muddled either innocently or by design. And of course, the remedy is often swayed by influence or ideology.
I'm not sure what you mean but I agree wholeheartedly.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-19-2014, 07:36 PM
 
2,932 posts, read 3,995,829 times
Reputation: 1781
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbronston View Post
I'm not sure what you mean but I agree wholeheartedly.
What I mean is that the wording of the amendment is so ambiguous that any abridgement to clarify it belies ones ideology. I have a suspicion of it's true meaning but won't for a minute commit to the fact that I knew their exact intentions. Shortning it to merely state "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed' is not much better than adding “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms when serving in the Militia shall not be infringed” as Justice Stevens proffered. We no longer seem to have a logical, non partisan way of dealing with any conundrum presented by governance.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-19-2014, 08:12 PM
 
Location: Lakewood Ranch, FL
5,311 posts, read 8,127,264 times
Reputation: 6376
I'm not sure I agree that the wording is ambiguous although I know exactly what you mean. The Federalist Papers 28, 29, and 46 (which I was inspired to finally read a few years ago because of the whole 2nd amendment hullabaloo) I think gives clarity to the meaning of the words. The founders were protecting the people from tyranny by their own government and they made it clear that no future Congress would be able to change that. The militia clause is a preamble of sorts, which was the style of writing at the time, not a conditional clause. However, whether or not a well-regulated (read trained and disciplined) militia is still needed (and who is to say that it is not?) does not change the purpose of the 2nd amendment--protection of the people, by the people, and for the people, from their own government which might still one day become too powerful to the point of becoming tyrannical. I do agree, though, that one's understanding of the 2nd amendment is muddled by an educational system that fails to teach it's students the real history and content of the constitution and by those whose political agendas cloud (conveniently) their understanding. That's not a snarky shot at anyone...that's just my view of reality.

Last edited by bbronston; 04-19-2014 at 08:21 PM.. Reason: Clarification
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-19-2014, 08:43 PM
 
2,932 posts, read 3,995,829 times
Reputation: 1781
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbronston View Post
I'm not sure I agree that the wording is ambiguous although I know exactly what you mean. The Federalist Papers 28, 29, and 46 (which I was inspired to finally read a few years ago because of the whole 2nd amendment hullabaloo) I think gives clarity to the meaning of the words. The founders were protecting the people from tyranny by their own government and they made it clear that no future Congress would be able to change that. The militia clause is a preamble of sorts, which was the style of writing at the time, not a conditional clause. However, whether or not a well-regulated (read trained and disciplined) militia is still needed (and who is to say that it is not?) does not change the purpose of the 2nd amendment--protection of the people, by the people, and for the people, from their own government which might still one day become too powerful to the point of becoming tyrannical. I do agree, though, that one's understanding of the 2nd amendment is muddled by an educational system that fails to teach it's students the real history and content of the constitution and by those whose political agendas cloud (conveniently) their understanding. That's not a snarky shot at anyone...that's just my view of reality.
Of course this is your opinion, clouded by your agenda, which is not shared by others less informed as well some much more so. For the sake of argument, I applaud your confidence.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-19-2014, 09:02 PM
 
Location: Lakewood Ranch, FL
5,311 posts, read 8,127,264 times
Reputation: 6376
LOL...thanks but I don't have an agenda to cloud my opinion unless you consider placing a priority on preserving the constitution an agenda. I suppose in some circles, that is an agenda, unfortunately. My opinion is based on my somewhat limited reading and research which appears to be more than many others have bothered to do yet they claim to be authorities on the subject or dismiss those who know what they are talking about. It's not rocket science, it's history. It's just too bad that history is regarded as clouded opinion these days.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-19-2014, 09:22 PM
 
2,932 posts, read 3,995,829 times
Reputation: 1781
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbronston View Post
LOL...thanks but I don't have an agenda to cloud my opinion unless you consider placing a priority on preserving the constitution an agenda. I suppose in some circles, that is an agenda, unfortunately. My opinion is based on my somewhat limited reading and research which appears to be more than many others have bothered to do yet they claim to be authorities on the subject or dismiss those who know what they are talking about. It's not rocket science, it's history. It's just too bad that history is regarded as clouded opinion these days.
I hardly think many claim to be authorities. It's more of a etched in stone gift of the gods vs living document type of thing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-20-2014, 12:51 AM
 
34,239 posts, read 41,261,292 times
Reputation: 29719
Neighbor with gun range in his backyard if safely set up wouldnt bother me, what would be irritating is the noise of some one frequently shooting off their guns, as an example an hour of shooting every night after supper?, an afternoon on the weekend with friends shooting many guns.? As a neighbor that would get old real quick.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-20-2014, 06:28 AM
 
Location: Lakewood Ranch, FL
5,311 posts, read 8,127,264 times
Reputation: 6376
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
Neighbor with gun range in his backyard if safely set up wouldnt bother me, what would be irritating is the noise of some one frequently shooting off their guns, as an example an hour of shooting every night after supper?, an afternoon on the weekend with friends shooting many guns.? As a neighbor that would get old real quick.
I think the noise would be extremely annoying. However, even a safely set up outdoor range can't contain every possible bullet and we all know that mistakes happen, accidents happen, and 'stupid' happens. A 9mm bullet can travel (according to the web) about 7500 feet if it doesn't hit something or someone on the way. That's about 1.4 miles and that is just a 9mm of a particular weight and muzzle velocity. There are others that are faster with more energy that will travel further and that is just an average pistol. What about rifles?

The bottom line is that freedom is a great thing but it must be balanced with appropriate protections, and common sense tells me that the law, as it stands now, while placing appropriate restrictions on backyard ranges, doesn't go far enough in defining where backyard ranges should be allowed and where they should not.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-20-2014, 07:25 AM
 
34,239 posts, read 41,261,292 times
Reputation: 29719
Something like this i'd consider safe.
http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/gYpHvMqrSJ0/0.jpg

something like this not so much.
http://cdn.breitbart.com/mediaserver/Breitbart/Big-Government/2014/Guns/backyard-gun-range-MiamiHerald.jpg

As this could happen.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/12/2...ard-gun-range/
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-20-2014, 07:58 AM
 
Location: Lakewood Ranch, FL
5,311 posts, read 8,127,264 times
Reputation: 6376
I wouldn't consider the first one safe if there were homes within range of being hit by either an accidental or negligent discharge. I'm sure if you lived directly behind that backstop, it would cross your mind every day you heard those "pops".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Florida
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:43 PM.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top