[Spring Hillian]

Originally Posted by annerk

Rent controlled places can be quite affordable. I have friends in a pre-war in the east 80's (near Gracie Mansion) who pay $1800 a month for a 2BR/1B with a working fireplace in a doorman building and a partial river view. They make three times in NYC what they would doing a comparable job in Florida, so their COL is actually lower than it would be in Florida.

Let me bring you up to date on what is going on in NYC. Rent control was abolished quite a few years ago. Rent Stabilization replaced it. The most you can get now is a 2 year lease. The rules and regulations concerning rent stabilization can be mind boggling. There are rules as to how much the rent can be raised when the apartment is vacated and rented again and different rules when a tenant renews a lease.

$3,800 was the average monthly rent in Brooklyn, NY last year.
Brooklyn rents soar to $3,035 average, closing gap with Manhattan - NY Daily News

Apartments for rent can be hard to find in a lot of areas because the old pre WWII built buildings went "co-op". You buy the apartment. When I left Brooklyn 26 years ago our rent on a one bedroom apartment in a building built in 1931 was $450. Today an apartment in that building rents for $1,100.00
1 bedroom 1 bath and 600 sq feet. The building has 206 complaints listed with NYC Housing. In other words, it is a dump.

2246 Ocean Ave, Brooklyn, NY 11229


Your friends must have lived in that apartment since 1971 when they would have been under rent control. The average in Manhattan right now is $3,861.
Manhattan Rental Market Report | MNS is Real Impact Real Estate

In NYC they pay city, state and federal income tax. That takes a nice chunk out of high wage earners.
A gallon of gas in Manhattan is $3.99 to $4.50 a gallon. Perhaps they use the subway system.
There were 48,000 felonies and misdemeanors recorded over a five-year period July 2008 through June 2013 on the subway system.
EXCLUSIVE: Safest and riskiest areas of New York's subway system revealed in Daily News investigation - NY Daily News

Regardless, the average weekly wage in Manhattan is currently around $1,200.00.

[Spring Hillian]

Originally Posted by annerk

Except far too many don't bother to have the foresight to realize that their problems will follow them to the new place. They come thinking they will start fresh--but fresh from what? People with no job skills and savings will be no better--and after you factor in the cost of moving--possibly much worse off than if they either stay where they are, or move someplace based on availability of work and inexpensive housing instead of sunshine.

The biggest problem any couple can face is income. Lack of. The minimum wage in VA is $7.25 an hour.
Here are the stats:

Price difference in Tampa, FL vs. Richmond VA.

Groceries 2%less
Housing 13%less
Utilities 10%less
Transportation 3%more
Health Care 10%less

So, a minimum wage worker from Richmond VA gets a better hourly rate and has a lower cost of living.

BTW - there are less than 1/2 million people in FL who earn minimum wage.

[Spring Hillian]

Originally Posted by seain dublin

Not when you go from a hole where you have a job to hole where you don't have a job.

And you certainly don't do it when you have minor children that you need to support.

You dont know their entire situation. Anybody can get a job in FL if they want one and that is a fact.

[Spring Hillian]

Originally Posted by Spring Hillian

You dont know their entire situation. Anybody can get a job in FL if they want one and that is a fact.

CASE ON POINT "We will actually be relocating due to my boyfriends job and I actually am a "career woman" due to my amazing job that allows me to work at home. So please, don't get thrown off by the age"

[8to32characters]

Originally Posted by seain dublin

Agree, it also doesn't help that there are several posters on here who encourage people like that.

An example, one young woman has two posts going on the Tampa board, her boyfriend is currently out or work but can do construction, lawn care, pool cleaning(you get the idea).

She works as a front desk/receptionist at some health club.

So neither one has a skill set that thousands of others looking for service industry jobs don't already have, who are already in FL and looking for work.

They have little to no savings, yet the responses they get don't address reality, instead you get "pursue your dreams" nonsense.

It's really amazing.

Not that anyone should base a decision from comments on CD, but if you try and point out reality, well that's not a good thing.

I just warned a fellow RI'er on C-D the other day from moving down to FL with no education, certification, or marketable skill/trade. Supposedly, she has "sales" and "secretarial" experience and her husband is a "handyman" who can do "gutters," "carpentry," and "flooring"--you get the idea, LOL.

[annerk]

Originally Posted by Spring Hillian

The biggest problem any couple can face is income. Lack of. The minimum wage in VA is $7.25 an hour.
Here are the stats:

Price difference in Tampa, FL vs. Richmond VA.

Groceries 2%less
Housing 13%less
Utilities 10%less
Transportation 3%more
Health Care 10%less

So, a minimum wage worker from Richmond VA gets a better hourly rate and has a lower cost of living.

BTW - there are less than 1/2 million people in FL who earn minimum wage.

Add in day care costs, the cost of moving, and possibly leaving a safety net of relatives and friends behind, amortize that over the next 2-3 years, they aren't any better off.

[annerk]

Originally Posted by Spring Hillian

Let me bring you up to date on what is going on in NYC. Rent control was abolished quite a few years ago. Rent Stabilization replaced it. The most you can get now is a 2 year lease. The rules and regulations concerning rent stabilization can be mind boggling. There are rules as to how much the rent can be raised when the apartment is vacated and rented again and different rules when a tenant renews a lease.

$3,800 was the average monthly rent in Brooklyn, NY last year.
Brooklyn rents soar to $3,035 average, closing gap with Manhattan - NY Daily News

Apartments for rent can be hard to find in a lot of areas because the old pre WWII built buildings went "co-op". You buy the apartment. When I left Brooklyn 26 years ago our rent on a one bedroom apartment in a building built in 1931 was $450. Today an apartment in that building rents for $1,100.00
1 bedroom 1 bath and 600 sq feet. The building has 206 complaints listed with NYC Housing. In other words, it is a dump.

2246 Ocean Ave, Brooklyn, NY 11229


Your friends must have lived in that apartment since 1971 when they would have been under rent control. The average in Manhattan right now is $3,861.
Manhattan Rental Market Report | MNS is Real Impact Real Estate

In NYC they pay city, state and federal income tax. That takes a nice chunk out of high wage earners.
A gallon of gas in Manhattan is $3.99 to $4.50 a gallon. Perhaps they use the subway system.
There were 48,000 felonies and misdemeanors recorded over a five-year period July 2008 through June 2013 on the subway system.
EXCLUSIVE: Safest and riskiest areas of New York's subway system revealed in Daily News investigation - NY Daily News

Regardless, the average weekly wage in Manhattan is currently around $1,200.00.

They have been there for a long time--she grew up in the apartment, her parents added her to the lease when she turned 18, and she kind of "inherited" the place over time.

She is a CPA with a Big Five and he is a lawyer for a television network. Both are in their late 50's and they have no children, just a spoiled Maltese.

Even with NY/NYC taxes, there's no way they would be doing better in Florida.

By the way, former NY'er here (I lived in Hell's Kitchen near the Dewitt Clinton Park). Toss whatever crime statistics you want at me--overall statistics in NYC are not representative of the 6 train from 86th to wall St.

[kyle19125]

Originally Posted by Spring Hillian

I would say that most people relocating are looking for better but not the extreme. They realize they are going down the tubes where they are due to unemployment, high COL. They need relief. Just as those who migrated from the South decades ago to the North the reverse is in play. The north has people out priced. There are more people without college degrees and proven track records, skills, knowledge. They are the majority.

Things will continue to slide downwards as time goes on.

I think many are confused when using terms like "high cost of living" when describing certain areas. Economics dictates what the cost of living which is based on supply and demand as well as average earnings. Those still living in areas where people are moving from are living comfortably at a higher standard than we are here in Florida largely. Certain people have been priced out of some areas of the North and as you pointed out they're largely minus the necessary skills/education so in essence much of Florida is becoming the dumping ground for that section of the population and the "slide downward" will be the destiny here, not there.

[TriMT7]

Originally Posted by kyle19125

I think many are confused when using terms like "high cost of living" when describing certain areas. Economics dictates what the cost of living which is based on supply and demand as well as average earnings. Those still living in areas where people are moving from are living comfortably at a higher standard than we are here in Florida largely. Certain people have been priced out of some areas of the North and as you pointed out they're largely minus the necessary skills/education so in essence much of Florida is becoming the dumping ground for that section of the population and the "slide downward" will be the destiny here, not there.

That's a terrible argument. One can argue that those who are struggling in Florida are also "minus the necessary skills/education," so it appears those people would need to move to go to ultra-low COL places.... like Atlanta and have a 2 hour commute to their job so they can live in a McMansion for 100k.

[The b8nk]

NYC is not FLORIDA, and to compare the two just proves that the COL is getting out of hand in relation to the wages that are paid here. At least in NYC I HAVE A CHANCE to get a great job at one of the MAJOR firms that are headquartered there. In FL I can manage a call center or cut lawns, lol