[StarfishKey]

Originally Posted by Spring Hillian

Oh, another thing. The non-native snakes die in cold weather. A hard freeze would decimate the population.

Hey, are you saying it doesn't matter if things destroy the Keys environment? The Keys have no freezing temperatures ever recorded in their history - the lowest ever recorded in Key Largo was 35 in 1981, and 41 in Key West. Plenty of exotics can survive here that may struggle elsewhere with no trouble. And we deserve state protection as much as any other county, especially because there are plants and animals found on the Keys that are found nowhere else in the world.

[The Villages Guy]

Originally Posted by StarfishKey

Hey, are you saying it doesn't matter if things destroy the Keys environment? The Keys have no freezing temperatures ever recorded in their history - the lowest ever recorded in Key Largo was 35 in 1981, and 41 in Key West. Plenty of exotics can survive here that may struggle elsewhere with no trouble. And we deserve state protection as much as any other county, especially because there are plants and animals found on the Keys that are found nowhere else in the world.

Read the article. It did not say it had to get to freezing or below to kill the invasive species.

[Spring Hillian]

Originally Posted by StarfishKey

Hey, are you saying it doesn't matter if things destroy the Keys environment? The Keys have no freezing temperatures ever recorded in their history - the lowest ever recorded in Key Largo was 35 in 1981, and 41 in Key West. Plenty of exotics can survive here that may struggle elsewhere with no trouble. And we deserve state protection as much as any other county, especially because there are plants and animals found on the Keys that are found nowhere else in the world.

I havent heard of their arrival in the keys, but I expect they will get there.

I am not advocating the allowance of invasive species any where.

[vaughanwilliams]

Originally Posted by Spring Hillian

Cold snap killed many pythons in Everglades - Sun Sentinel

So what-they've had four years to recover and they can lay up to 100 eggs and live for 30 years.

Why are you even debating this? Is it some "My right to do whatever the hell I want trumps common sense" thing? No offense Spring, but as someone so in love with Florida, I would think you'd take the opposite view that you do.

Here some more info on exotics that are here. The Black and White Tegu and the Nile Monitor sound particularly charming.

Worst invasive reptiles: Florida’s exotic pythons, anacondas, monitors, tegus.

"Even when we are looking for snakes and know they are there, we have about a 1 percent chance of seeing them". In other words, if you see one, there's probably a boatload that you don't see.

Here's an interesting map of sightings/removals;

http://www.eddmaps.org/florida/snakes.cfm

[Not_liking_FL]

Originally Posted by Spring Hillian

Have you got published studies on that?

There are peer-reviewed studies on the python problem, but you can dig around and look them up yourself. I've read several articles that debunk your myth of pythons being "decimated". I believe they said that most survived by burrowing and moving to deeper and warmer water.

[StarfishKey]

Originally Posted by North_Pinellas_Guy

Read the article. It did not say it had to get to freezing or below to kill the invasive species.

But it rarely gets below the 60s here in the winter. Tropical plants survive here just fine, and so do tropical animals. Again, that one time it hit 41 was in 1981, and it was the only time since the one other recorded time in the 1800s. This is a fully tropical climate and anything that can live in such climates elsewhere around the world, can find a way to survive here too. I think there is also very little doubt that anything that has been found on the borders of Monroe County in Miami-Dade and in the Everglades is also in the Keys, or very soon to be - we touch that area and in many ways are an even more inviting location in the less populated tropical hammock than colder points just North of us.

[OpinionInOcala]

I don't see the following as being a particularly rosy picture of the current python status: Florida’s python problem continues after amateur hunters, attention fade away | WUFT News

[The Villages Guy]

Originally Posted by StarfishKey

But it rarely gets below the 60s here in the winter. Tropical plants survive here just fine, and so do tropical animals. Again, that one time it hit 41 was in 1981, and it was the only time since the one other recorded time in the 1800s. This is a fully tropical climate and anything that can live in such climates elsewhere around the world, can find a way to survive here too. I think there is also very little doubt that anything that has been found on the borders of Monroe County in Miami-Dade and in the Everglades is also in the Keys, or very soon to be - we touch that area and in many ways are an even more inviting location in the less populated tropical hammock than colder points just North of us.

Fair enough.

[Spring Hillian]

Im not defending anything. I opined that I think jail is not a place someone should go because they keep a certain snake or any other animal. Being a responsible owner is the key. Anyone who keeps exotic animals as pets should be licensed and have to answer up to "what happened to you XXX"?

There is no doubt that an invasive species in the wild is not good for anything.

Originally Posted by vaughanwilliams

So what-they've had four years to recover and they can lay up to 100 eggs and live for 30 years.

Why are you even debating this? Is it some "My right to do whatever the hell I want trumps common sense" thing? No offense Spring, but as someone so in love with Florida, I would think you'd take the opposite view that you do.

Here some more info on exotics that are here. The Black and White Tegu and the Nile Monitor sound particularly charming.

Worst invasive reptiles: Florida’s exotic pythons, anacondas, monitors, tegus.

"Even when we are looking for snakes and know they are there, we have about a 1 percent chance of seeing them". In other words, if you see one, there's probably a boatload that you don't see.

Here's an interesting map of sightings/removals;

Large Constrictor Snake Sightings/Removals - EDDMapS Distribution

[StarfishKey]

Originally Posted by Spring Hillian

Im not defending anything. I opined that I think jail is not a place someone should go because they keep a certain snake or any other animal. Being a responsible owner is the key. Anyone who keeps exotic animals as pets should be licensed and have to answer up to "what happened to you XXX"?

There is no doubt that an invasive species in the wild is not good for anything.

Unfortunately I think allowing anything that poses a threat to Florida's environment or residents (anywhere from Key West up to the top) as a possibility for legal ownership, puts the onus on individual owners to be responsible and care for the welfare and future of the state. I think the stakes are too high to put that risk in the hands of individual people, especially non-professionals who are not paid to guard the health of state. Some people are just not that responsible, and people also make mistakes. We cannot hold our entire state hostage to the whims of a few individuals who may or may not follow through on their responsibilities to own these animals "responsibly." And again, "responsible ownership" of wild animals is really probably an oxymoron, because these animals are not suitable for domestication anyway - it is not enjoyable for them or natural, and poses many threats to the owner and neighbors. And many of these people do own both sexes, allowing them to breed and continually multiply the problem and risk. And then when there is some kind of mishap and they get out, are sold illegally or passed down to someone who did not pass permit requirements, or are released, the entire state pays for decades into the future, and maybe forever.

Additionally, typically these animals are found in households of people, where only one person may have passed the requirements for care, but realistically a range of people with different levels of responsibility and knowledge are coming in contact with the animal - children may take turns caring for the animal, an unknowledgeable spouse may sometimes be the only one in the house, a neighbor may come over to handle the animal as a novelty, etc... Unless every single person who has opportunity to come in contact with the animal is required to pass rigorous testing - which is really not practical or possible - then the animal is not secure and no one can vouch for the care following strict standards at all times.

When it comes to the welfare and safety of Florida's environment and citizens, it is the state's responsibility to pass laws that protect the people in our state. It is not appropriate to leave the future of the state's safety, environment, and economy up to a few random lay citizens. The responsibility of caring for the state lies with its legislature and enforcement. The stakes are too high to just hope a few individual citizens make the right decisions. Any animal or plant that poses a threat to the people or environment of Florida should be illegal to bring into the state, period. And the fines at least, if not jail time, should be hefty and actively enforced - which again will bring in good revenue for the state anyway, which we need.