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Old 09-20-2014, 02:27 PM
 
741 posts, read 721,784 times
Reputation: 1356

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spring Hillian View Post
There were more people killed by illegal firearms in the U.S. last week than there have been cases involving a legal firearms owner in 10 years.
That's an odd contortion of definition. Define an 'illegal firearm' and define a 'case involving a legal gun owner.'

We can probably both agree that a stolen firearm would be a technically 'illegal' firearm when its used in a crime (even though it may be returned to its lawful owner afterward). We can agree that something like an illegally smuggled machine gun would be an 'illegal firearm' although those are extraordinarily rare in the US since the US has almost no black market metabolism for smuggled firearms since its a huge exporter of smuggled illegal firearms to other countries.

According to an older survey of inmates, the minority of them acquired firearms from illegal sources, which makes sense since its so trivially easy to obtain one legally. I mean, there are people constantly posting guns for sale on my local Facebook Swip-Swapper.

"Legal" gun owners who do stupid **** are obnoxiously common. Examine any number of firearm offense involve illegal discharge, illegal display, etc. This is without even getting into the stupid **** that is done under the guise of legal technicality (ie, carrying an AR15 into Panera Bread BCUZ IMMA MAKE A POLITICAL STATEMENT ABOUT MAH RIGHT TO CARRY!!!)

I generally agree with you that the majority of gun owners are mischaracterized by anti gun rights types, but just as they're too far negative, gun rights ideologues tend to be grossly Pollyannaish about their own kind. That whole scene is in sore need of a housecleaning but just like cops make lame excuses for abusive cops yet wonder why they're all lumped together, the gun world is notoriously bad about sticking up for anyone perceived to be 'their own kind', even when their actions are morally repugnant to basically everyone else.
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Old 09-20-2014, 02:29 PM
 
Location: Spring Hill Florida
12,135 posts, read 13,203,256 times
Reputation: 6009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaba View Post
I'd wager the 100 blocks of South Chicago against "Coney Island" (<-- LMAO) on the danger rubric any day of the week, rookie.

It comes as no surprise that you admit to having a rich past as a felon, since you routinely rise to defend murderers and express that distinct brand of paranoia that can only come from a life spent running, hiding and watching your back. Just understand that the vast majority of people weren't cursed with such a wretched existence and thusly, don't support the narratives that it's OK to shoot people to prevent being 'disrespected' and/or whatever flimsy pretext or excuse concealed carry murderers trump up.

As noted, concealed carriers and street corner thugs are often times working from the same childish, emotional place about 'respect', so it really is no shock that you admit to being both.
Havent ran, hid nor needed to watch my back and certainly have no paranoia. I thought that some of the things I did were noble and good for society. We were saving lives. However, those who employed those guys didnt think we were doing a good thing. By the time I got home from my military service the people I was involved with were either in jail, in Chicago or dead and I never made any attempt to reach back to it. I went on with a new life, new attitude. I was lucky. I got set straight by the right people.

I never said it was acceptable to shoot people to prevent being "disrespected' or under any other pretense or excusing using deadly force. However, it is totally acceptable under the rules set forth by law. Show me one single case where a legal weapons owner shot and killed over "respect". i can show you thousands that are opposite. People who think as you do are a minority.

I notice you block direct messages. Talk about paranoia. I guess that is what you have to do when your message box is jammed up with messages from those who disagree with you, eh?
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Old 09-20-2014, 02:33 PM
 
Location: Spring Hill Florida
12,135 posts, read 13,203,256 times
Reputation: 6009
Tell ya what.. You keep your bleeding heart beating for the criminals and I will continue to support
the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution of the United States.

Nobody ever knows if I am carrying a concealed weapon when I walk into Panera Bread or any where else.
Your point there is mute.

Criminals do not walk into Zak's Sporting Goods to buy a weapon.

I do agree on one point that you folks make. There should be a ban on sales of firearms private party to private party. That is a very dangerous protocol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaba View Post
That's an odd contortion of definition. Define an 'illegal firearm' and define a 'case involving a legal gun owner.'

We can probably both agree that a stolen firearm would be a technically 'illegal' firearm when its used in a crime (even though it may be returned to its lawful owner afterward). We can agree that something like an illegally smuggled machine gun would be an 'illegal firearm' although those are extraordinarily rare in the US since the US has almost no black market metabolism for smuggled firearms since its a huge exporter of smuggled illegal firearms to other countries.

According to an older survey of inmates, the minority of them acquired firearms from illegal sources, which makes sense since its so trivially easy to obtain one legally. I mean, there's people constantly posting guns for sale on my local Facebook Swip-Swapper.

"Legal" gun owners who do stupid **** are obnoxiously common. Examine any number of firearm offense involve illegal discharge, illegal display, etc. This is without even getting into the stupid **** that is done under the guise of legal technicality (ie, carrying an AR15 into Panera Bread BCUZ IMMA MAKE A POLITICAL STATEMENT ABOUT MAH RIGHT TO CARRY!!!)

I generally agree with you that the majority of gun owners are mnischaracterized by anti gun rights types, but just as they're too far negative, gun rights ideologues tend to be grossly Pollyannaish about their own kind.
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Old 09-20-2014, 02:38 PM
 
741 posts, read 721,784 times
Reputation: 1356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spring Hillian View Post
Show me one single case where a legal weapons owner shot and killed over "respect".
The Curtis Reeves case.
I can provide a link to the thread, if you wish.

That's where you go off the rails. You make ridiculous characterizations of obvious situations to suit your agenda, so when Curtis Reeves shoots and kills a guy over popcorn, you launch into the "IT'S NOT POPCORN! THERE WAS A CEL PHONE! AND HE MOVED HIS ARM KINDA! WHAT IF HE WOULD'VE FALLEN AND HIT HIS HEAD!" routine of the flimsiest, weakest excuse-making to justify a concealed-carrier turd who shot a man over a trivial confrontation.

"BUT IT WASN'T A TRIVIAL CONFRONTATION! WHAT IF HE HAD A GUN! WHAT IF HE WAS GOING TO HIT! SEE HIS ARM? AND THERE WAS A CEL PHONE THAT KINDA FLEW IN THE AIR! AND WHAT IF HE WAS GOING TO HIT!"

There are cases galore where by the judgement of normal people, "legal gun owners" have behaved repugnantly. Need I remind you of all the various mass shooters who passed the background check.
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Old 09-20-2014, 02:40 PM
 
741 posts, read 721,784 times
Reputation: 1356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spring Hillian View Post

I do agree on one point that you folks make. There should be a ban on sales of firearms private party to private party. That is a very dangerous protocol.
See, here we have common ground.
You absolutely underestimate the number of criminals who simply don't have a felony record (or who have a friend with no felony record) and who buy guys from the very same places you do, but its good to see that even someone like you recognizes how asinine the current 'private sale' regime is.
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Old 09-20-2014, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Spring Hill Florida
12,135 posts, read 13,203,256 times
Reputation: 6009
Unless u are blind and nobody described it to you it is obvious Reeves was being attacked.

It surely started as a trivial confrontation but Olson escalated it by standing, turning and continuing to argue, threw an object at Reeves, grabbed Reeves' property an threw that at him too. Olson was angry.
Reeves was protecting himself from an angry man.

As stated. More people were shot and killed by illegal firearms in the hands of those not legally allowed to have the weapon last week than the amount of people who had legal possession in 10 years.

Go start a campaign to eliminate guns from the streets and not my home.

Of course legal gun owners/carriers have used their weapons illegally but the percentage compared to the illegals is another story.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaba View Post
The Curtis Reeves case.
I can provide a link to the thread, if you wish.

That's where you go off the rails. You make ridiculous characterizations of obvious situations to suit your agenda, so when Curtis Reeves shoots and kills a guy over popcorn, you launch into the "IT'S NOT POPCORN! THERE WAS A CEL PHONE! AND HE MOVED HIS ARM KINDA! WHAT IF HE WOULD'VE FALLEN AND HIT HIS HEAD!" routine of the flimsiest, weakest excuse-making to justify a concealed-carrier turd who shot a man over a trivial confrontation.

"BUT IT WASN'T A TRIVIAL CONFRONTATION! WHAT IF HE HAD A GUN! WHAT IF HE WAS GOING TO HIT! SEE HIS ARM? AND THERE WAS A CEL PHONE THAT KINDA FLEW IN THE AIR! AND WHAT IF HE WAS GOING TO HIT!"

There are cases galore where by the judgement of normal people, "legal gun owners" have behaved repugnantly. Need I remind you of all the various mass shooters who passed the background check.
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Old 09-20-2014, 03:40 PM
 
Location: Spring Hill Florida
12,135 posts, read 13,203,256 times
Reputation: 6009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaba View Post
See, here we have common ground.
You absolutely underestimate the number of criminals who simply don't have a felony record (or who have a friend with no felony record) and who buy guys from the very same places you do, but its good to see that even someone like you recognizes how asinine the current 'private sale' regime is.
When a person buys guns frequently on the record it would be investigated as a potential gun runner.
I go to flea markets here. You can buy anything you want there. Rifles, shotguns, pistols and ammunition all without any ID. The only paperwork that gets done is the exchange of the money. Yes, this needs to be stopped. It puts guns in the hands of those who should not have them. No brainer there.
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Old 09-20-2014, 03:47 PM
 
741 posts, read 721,784 times
Reputation: 1356
And there we have it.

You characterize what we see in this video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2Rly-Qohu4

With this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spring Hillian View Post
It surely started as a trivial confrontation but Olson escalated it by standing, turning and continuing to argue, threw an object at Reeves, grabbed Reeves' property an threw that at him too. Olson was angry.
Reeves was protecting himself from an angry man.
... believe it was a justifiable situation based on a narrative like ^ that^ and seriously, earnestly wonder why people write off your whole crowd as a bunch of fringe kooks.
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Old 09-20-2014, 03:48 PM
 
741 posts, read 721,784 times
Reputation: 1356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spring Hillian View Post
When a person buys guns frequently on the record it would be investigated as a potential gun runner.
I go to flea markets here. You can buy anything you want there. Rifles, shotguns, pistols and ammunition all without any ID. The only paperwork that gets done is the exchange of the money. Yes, this needs to be stopped. It puts guns in the hands of those who should not have them. No brainer there.
You do understand that if you went on an internet firearm forum and posted this, you'd be crucified, right?

The funniest part would be watching them fling those familiar mantras at you, that you're so accustomed to relying on yourself, and seeing what your response would be when they intellectually stonewalled your reasoned position about background checks with the exact same inane bull**** (about Switzerland or "good guys and bad guys" or the expected statistical perversions) that you yourself swear by and sincerely believe resonates as totally valid when the conversation takes a different direction.
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Old 09-20-2014, 04:18 PM
 
Location: Spring Hill Florida
12,135 posts, read 13,203,256 times
Reputation: 6009
I really dont care what others may think about my position on any issue. However, if they could possibly justify the reasoning of person-to-person firearms sales with no records, i would entertain their thoughts.
Ive sold handguns to a person I knew. He was a deputy in Orange County. Rest assured I drew up a bill of sale for each transaction and him and myself sign it showing the transfer. I bought a shotgun from a DEA guy and he didnt want to do any paperwork so we just exchanged cash.

I really dont understand the rest of your message as it makes no sense to me.

How about those statistics though? Come up with anything? I guess not since you seem to be ranting about Switzerland.

I dont see much in the short theater video you provided link to. I see a man sitting. I see a man bending over. i see an arm reach out and grab something from the man sitting.

I see much more in this video.

New video released of movie theater shooting | TBO.com, The Tampa Tribune and The Tampa Times

Why are you wasting your time arguing this issue? We have a man sitting through a direct physical attack on himself and when the attack continued he took the only action he could and shot his attacker in the chest.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaba View Post
You do understand that if you went on an internet firearm forum and posted this, you'd be crucified, right?

The funniest part would be watching them fling those familiar mantras at you, that you're so accustomed to relying on yourself, and seeing what your response would be when they intellectually stonewalled your reasoned position about background checks with the exact same inane bull**** (about Switzerland or "good guys and bad guys" or the expected statistical perversions) that you yourself swear by and sincerely believe resonates as totally valid when the conversation takes a different direction.
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