2008 Florida Housing market Thread Jan - Mar (Miami, Vero Beach: mortgage, credit)

[gumbyfly]

Originally Posted by Retiredcoach

I guess that I am looking for someone to say that your state has more to offer than sunshine in the winter.

What does any state have to offer??? If you have something in particular that you are looking for, go find a state where THAT is offered. The primary draws are the ocean and the weather. If you like the ocean and all the things that the ocean offers (fishing, beaches, scuba, snorkling, boating etc.), you would like Florida. If you like sunshine and warm temperatures, you would like Florida.

Everything else is an opinion based on what an individual likes about the particular area of Florida they live in. I live in the Tallahassee area, and like that I get the northern Florida weather without having to worry too much about a direct hit by a hurricane (it could happen, but history shows it to be rare). There are lots of things I don't like, but it would be the same anywhere I was.

Maybe if you started a thread that listed all of the things you were looking for, it would be a bit more helpful to you. If you don't really know what you want, then pick a place and try it on for size.

[Retiredcoach]

Originally Posted by gumbyfly

What does any state have to offer??? If you have something in particular that you are looking for, go find a state where THAT is offered. The primary draws are the ocean and the weather. If you like the ocean and all the things that the ocean offers (fishing, beaches, scuba, snorkling, boating etc.), you would like Florida. If you like sunshine and warm temperatures, you would like Florida.

Everything else is an opinion based on what an individual likes about the particular area of Florida they live in. I live in the Tallahassee area, and like that I get the northern Florida weather without having to worry too much about a direct hit by a hurricane (it could happen, but history shows it to be rare). There are lots of things I don't like, but it would be the same anywhere I was.

Maybe if you started a thread that listed all of the things you were looking for, it would be a bit more helpful to you. If you don't really know what you want, then pick a place and try it on for size.

Once again, you mention only the climate and associated recreation as reasons for moving to Florida. Simply, that's a great benefit, but cannot be the lone benefit. My wants are simple... a safe, affordable, progressive, and evolving environment that will allow me to continue to maintain a decent standard of living.

[Retiredcoach]

Originally Posted by soundbreeze

My brothers father in law whois a retired teacher from Allentown, PA, and also runs his own local real estate firm purchased a very nice condo down here, with cash, for $129k (distressed seller/divorce settlement). He had it appraised for $170k after purchase. They are currently in the process of transferring their business interests down here, as there will be a runup in sales in the next couple of years once the folks on the sidelines jump in after valuations have moved towards intrinsic value vs. market value.

It's all based on your life situation, not some generalized assumptions as to whether ANY place is right or wrong for a particular individual.

As others have said, to create a thread in order to try to get others to reinforce assumptions you've already made, is a ludicrous effort @ best. Be POSITIVE and CONSTRUCTIVE or BE QUIET. "Silence is Golden".

Peace!

My lone comment would be that your brother's father-in-law certainly did benefit from the misfortune of another. It is real easy to be "positive and constructive" when you are the beneficiary of another's economic loss. Yes, sometimes silence is indeed golden.

[faithfulFrank]

Originally Posted by Retiredcoach

I am having a difficult time justifying spending a significant amount of money that I appear destined to lose. Just my opinion, but I am being as honest as I possibly can....

Dear Coach,
I understand that you are sincerely looking for reasons other then sunshine to move to Florida. I am no expert, but I will attempt to come up with a few other reasons....

Before I start.......understand that some of what I write may only pertain to the area of florida I bought a house in...I cannot speak for the WHOLE state of Florida, I can only state what my own limited experiences are.

1) Cost of living. I think it will be cheaper to live there then up here in NY.
2) No state tax.
3) Being in a state that caters to retirees. I am assuming that because retirees are so many and a powerful part of the population, politicians will try to keep them happy. I like staying happy.
4) Easier driving....cars lasting longer.
5) My awesome neighbors.
6) My strong sense of community.
7) Knowing that if anything happens to me, my wife is all set up in a place that she will be supported on many levels.
8) Great hospital and doctors near by.
9) Professional fire dept and Paramedics less then one mile away.

I guess I do not quite understand your belief of "money that I appear destined to lose"......housing prices are up and down everywhere. It is generally believed that in Florida, it is a buyers market.....prices are bottoming out....or will be soon. No one knows for sure, it is like timing the stock market, but I think that it is harder to "lose your shirt" when it is a buyers market. Many are starting to believe that now IS the time to start thinking to buy.......deals are starting to appear as prices are going down.

Now, 6 months from now, a year from now....who knows? Any of those are better then a few years ago.

If the house you end up buying is your last house, and you never sell it, does it matter what it is worth to you? Perhaps it does to your heirs, but not to you.

Don't get me wrong....I think anyone should try to buy a home at a price they are happy with, but quality of life, buying what you want when you want it, living where you are happy, etc, also come into play, perhaps more then a few grand here or there.

Lastly, it is hard to make a list without factoring weather, since the weather influences so many other things that might make the list.

How long my car lasts, how my joints ache or not, how many months I can enjoy gardening, utility costs, daily walks, months I can golf, clothes I wear, chance of slipping walking or driving, seasonal affective disorder, skin conditions, etc,etc.........all have something to do with the weather, so even if moving to Florida is mostly about the weather, it is only because the weather effects almost everything we do in life.

Good, thought provoking post.

Frank D.

[compelled to reply]

How about this? Like anywhere else, you can find areas where 90 percent of high school students graduate, you don't have to worry about having your home broken into, find a good paying job in certain fields, and not sit in maddening traffic every day. That describes my area and I don't even live in the "good" part of FL. The sunshine and climate a nice added benefit, but I also like the level of ethnic and cultural diversity I have found here that I haven't found in other suburban regions, the unique shopping, cultural and dining options, the (mostly) clean air, and the extensive social network I have built here. Yes real estate is expensive, but buying a home anywhere right now is a crapshoot. I like what my area offers, positive it outweighing the negative for me. That being said, it doesn't mean it will for you, and it doesn't mean this state doesn't have issues.

[Retiredcoach]

Originally Posted by faithfulFrank

bhoyle and lewlew....
Good posts.
Two points you make that are not posted about that often.
1) The thought that prices are coming down, a buyers market, and to perhaps consider buying before you are too old to enjoy it. That is what we did, and do not regret it. Life is not a practice run.

2) I'm almost 50. There will be more baby boomers on their way down in the coming years, perhaps changing the housing market. I feel like it was a good time to buy.....before that happens.

It is amazing how my life has changed this year, since buying our Florida home. You work hard all these years saving for retirement......but not knowing what retirement will even be. Well, now I know. It has an address. It is now my screensaver.

I know Florida is not perfect, but we love it every time we go down there. We like the retirement driven Central Florida area. The cost of owning a second home is minimized by renting it out a few times a year. Good tax write-off. We go down there a few times a year to work on the house, etc, and it provides us a place to go......(a working vacation).

As I am writing this, it is 4 degrees here, my cars are covered with salt, my driveway needs snowblowing, my boiler is working to keep us warm. I do not like the winter.....but it is easier to live with knowing I own a place in Florida, and only have a few more winters to go.

If anything happens to me, my wife does not have to figure out her future...it is all set. We now have many friends down there, the neighbors are the best in the world, and it feels more like home then it does here.

I think it is cheaper to live in Florida. My taxes are cheaper, gas is cheaper, my cars will not rust away....I've explored this pretty well. The only two things that seem to cost more down there is my water and my homeowners insurance. The scales still favor Florida. Yes, I know it is hot in the summer. I like that. I like that MUCH better then western NY winters.

Everything here has been discussed before, and I can only state my experience....I'm not trying to change anyone's views. It's just that there seems to be a bit more negative posts here in the Florida section, and I like to post my more positive experience every so often.

Frank D.

Frank,

I have enjoyed reading your posts from the initial discussions of the purchase of your Florida home to your current positive situation. Your outlook and optimism are most refreshing. In my mind, your Florida venture is an extension of your many years of memorable vacations. It is good to hear that you are anxiously anticipating your final move, and that western New York will look better when it is in your rear view mirror the last time. Our situations are different, however, as I am attempting to ascertain whether leaving Pittsburgh for Florida will improve my family's quality of life. If I leave for Florida, I will be garner 3 months of awesome weather and the year round beaches & oceans. In my rear view mirror, however, I will be leaving a Pittsburgh suburb with topnotch public schools, hospitals, libraries, museums, minimal traffic, reasonable cost of living, universities, strong civic & sports venues, parks, the 4 seasons, no state/local income tax for retirees, exceptional safety... all within a radius of 5 miles within my reasonable priced/reasonably insured/reasonably taxed 4500 square foot home. It just does not seem to be a reasonable trade-off, yet (or ever??) for us to relocate to Florida.

It seems to me that Florida right now may be a good place to vacation... a good place to visit, but not to stay for us. FYI... I have used my snowblower once this year (Wednesday- during Florida's arctic freeze). I have two 8 year old cars (with 100000+ miles) with no rust whatsoever. I plan to jog in a local park on Sunday with the projected temperature of 60 degrees. The good life might be found in Florida for some, but for others, the better life may be in Pittsburgh???

[Kat_Woman36]

In the wake of the slumping housing market and the declining housing prices, why are people buying houses?? Has the prices actually reached their all time low or am i missing something?

[rich renter]

Originally Posted by Kat_Woman36

In the wake of the slumping housing market and the declining housing prices, why are people buying houses?? Has the prices actually reached their all time low or am i missing something?

theres 18 million people i florida, there will always be a small number of idiots

[Crazy G]

Well!!! Everybody that purchased a house in Florida in the last three years, is NOW under water on it...
Like Clint Eastwood said, in the movie....

>>>"""ARE YOU FEELING LUCKY???""<<<<<<<<

Every week, the Florida lottery sells about 3 million tickets....
How may are winners, and how many are idiots???

[ucfjtm]

Originally Posted by Kat_Woman36

In the wake of the slumping housing market and the declining housing prices, why are people buying houses?? Has the prices actually reached their all time low or am i missing something?

You're not missing a thing.

Some people are buying (more lean to new homes from builders), but talk to sellers and look at inventories and it's definitely hard for people to sell their houses anywhere near their asking prices. With current inventories, sellers trying to shed what they can no longer afford, a glut of foreclosures (and more to come as ARMs kick to higher rates, creating more inventory and less buyers), questionable economy, rising insurance (if you didn't lose your policy already), no increase in salaries above inflation, a lack of sellers willing to accept the fact that nearly all houses are still grossly overvalued, and most importantly, much stricter lending standards, it's not a good time to buy. We'll never see the volume of potential buyers available again that existed during the 2000-2005 boom because of much tighter lending. Banks will shift back to using formulas similar to the 'max 3x your annual salary' for mortgages, meaning an average family with combined income of $60,000 will buy their 4 bedroom house at $200k in a decent neighborhood with a small down payment. Eventually prices will have to decline back to normal levels, and even if they don't want to admit it, sellers and those within the real estate industry know it. There are plenty of houses to rent at a bargain, so wait a year and look at prices then. I'd be willing to bet in Jan. 2009 we'll be seeing at least $25-50k lower than we see now. People will realize $200k 4 bedroom houses in decent neighborhoods can be a reality again. I don't think the market will make it to pre-2000 levels where this house could go for $150k, but it'll get much closer to that level than it's at now.