2008 Florida Housing market Thread Jan - Mar (Tallahassee: mortgage, environment)

[bhoyle]

This is a nice and so far, civilized venue. I'm referring to this City-Data thread.

I just wanted to say that no matter how you slice it, it's always a personal decision and I guess I just got tired of looking at smoke-stacks and dealing with negative people that always seemed depressed.
I also could not stand the actual physical pain involved with winter weather. I was looking at the brown sludge on my car, my floors (car & home) and then the lack of sunshine; I just felt there had to be something better.
I understand that for many, the warm fuzzy feeling of familiarity and what they have come to know is hard to leave. Change is never easy.
Then I had a few friends die and it left me wondering what it all meant.
It dawned on me that living in Florida could be that warm and fuzzy place/feeling if I let it.
Time is all any of us have. It's a matter of how you want to spend it and what you appreciate.
Good Luck to all of you and have a Happy New Year!


PS: For the person who said North Port was a great place to buy that was affordable, you are correct. Port Charlotte is too! I live in Port Charlotte and I love the Harbor, fishing and of course the golf courses.
I like to drive over the bridge between Port Charlotte and Punta Gorda to see and Appreciate the Harbor. It makes me feel lucky to be alive every day!

[verobeach]

Originally Posted by Retiredcoach

First time posting and am hopeful to garner your opinions. I will soon be retiring from my teaching position in Pennsylvania (within the next 5 years). I was hoping to buy a decent home in Florida sometime during 2006... we liked New Smyrna area best... but have stopped "dead in our tracks". The shoddy quality and associated prices of many single family homes in much of Florida are unrealistic and out of reach for many of us. We are still re-examining our financial direction and exploring options, however. The most crucial issue is that we do not have the same impressions of Florida that we did five years ago, and it goes beyond the threat of hurricanes. Florida can be very proud of its ethnic diversity, but should be ashamed of its financial diversity. Your statewide middle class is shrinking faster than probably any place that I have been in the country. The state appears to have a vocal affluent population, and then, the significant majority just hoping to scrape out a living. Housing appreciation was the biggest hope of many of your "working poor"... many must be quivering as the prices decline.

I mean no disrespect to anyone living in Florida, but more critical issues seem to arise every year that discount the appeal of your weather. For example, when I see an industry such as Disney with its megawealth and the focal point of much of the state's tourist economy paying such paltry wages/benefits to the majority of their workers, I question how many can survive in your very expensive state economy. This invariably translates into higher crime, poorer schools, and a disillusioned population paying for the services others cannot afford.

I look forward to your thoughts.

You've run posts similar to this one in the past. So WHY exactly do you want to come to Florida???

[faithfulFrank]

bhoyle and lewlew....
Good posts.
Two points you make that are not posted about that often.
1) The thought that prices are coming down, a buyers market, and to perhaps consider buying before you are too old to enjoy it. That is what we did, and do not regret it. Life is not a practice run.

2) I'm almost 50. There will be more baby boomers on their way down in the coming years, perhaps changing the housing market. I feel like it was a good time to buy.....before that happens.

It is amazing how my life has changed this year, since buying our Florida home. You work hard all these years saving for retirement......but not knowing what retirement will even be. Well, now I know. It has an address. It is now my screensaver.

I know Florida is not perfect, but we love it every time we go down there. We like the retirement driven Central Florida area. The cost of owning a second home is minimized by renting it out a few times a year. Good tax write-off. We go down there a few times a year to work on the house, etc, and it provides us a place to go......(a working vacation).

As I am writing this, it is 4 degrees here, my cars are covered with salt, my driveway needs snowblowing, my boiler is working to keep us warm. I do not like the winter.....but it is easier to live with knowing I own a place in Florida, and only have a few more winters to go.

If anything happens to me, my wife does not have to figure out her future...it is all set. We now have many friends down there, the neighbors are the best in the world, and it feels more like home then it does here.

I think it is cheaper to live in Florida. My taxes are cheaper, gas is cheaper, my cars will not rust away....I've explored this pretty well. The only two things that seem to cost more down there is my water and my homeowners insurance. The scales still favor Florida. Yes, I know it is hot in the summer. I like that. I like that MUCH better then western NY winters.

Everything here has been discussed before, and I can only state my experience....I'm not trying to change anyone's views. It's just that there seems to be a bit more negative posts here in the Florida section, and I like to post my more positive experience every so often.

Frank D.

[nomoresnow]

We've been here about 5 months now, and you're right, Frank. It's actually less expensive here than in Northern New York. And I'm not stuck inside for 5 months of the year because of the bone-chilling cold.

Happy New Year, everybody.

[faithfulFrank]

Dear Patti,

Love reading your posts......glad it is working out for you so well. I'm right behind ya!

As I type, it is now 2 degrees here...( I know some of you Florida people who have grown to hate the florida weather have never experienced below zero weather....it is brutal...I can easily take 30 degrees, but below zero is beyond cold )...but it should warm up to above freezing in a few days to above normal temps. (Imagine getting excited about the temps getting UP to the 30's??....welcome to western NY world.....)

It's funny you say 5 months. I friend of mine was saying that in most of the country, you will have 5 months of unpleasant weather....either cold winters or hot summers. I'll take the hot summers over these cold winters anyday, but of course, that is a debate that goes on daily here.

This is the worst part of our year. My son just got into his second accident, this time with MY best vehicle...(Seems he has not learned that 4 wheel drive does not mean 4 wheel stop)..skidded due to the weather.

The propane truck just filled my tank up 15 minutes ago and handed me a $600.00 bill.....(he filled the tank before just 33 days ago )

The cars here just degrade so much from our winters......I will just try to keep them going, and sell them when we move down there......then I can buy vehicles that will LAST. No rust, no potholes....just keep the UV protectant on the dash, etc, and my Florida cars should last MUCH longer then up here.

OK, I just read what I wrote...I'm sounding like a complainer....sorry. I don't want to, and am usually not a grump......I'll get through this winter just like I have all these years, and I'll be a lifelong Florida resident in 1278 days.
....yippee!

Frank D.

[soundbreeze]

Originally Posted by bhoyle

A good education and being in the right field of work is the only hope to be one of the haves and not the mega-have-nots that the USA is turning out to be, It's time we organize and show we mean business or it will result in a revolution within the next 50-75 years.

See, now I have to take issue w. that statement. So you are going to do what, organize in the name of folks who didn't make life choices to strive for an education and position themselves to be in industries & markets societies megatrends are headed?

One of my friends significant other was a stripper in a major metro. She changed her life, got out of the adult entertainment industry (where she was making VERY good money) to train to be a nurse. Soon, she will be ready for her new job in healthcare, and she loves it! They will be moving here to Florida, as healthcare is so strong here in Northwest Florida.

One must take personal responsibility for one's lifes choices. If you can't hack it, don't blame society, blame your own ignorance to the trends.

[soundbreeze]

Originally Posted by Retiredcoach

Of the 10 individuals who I know will be retiring during the next 2-3 years, only 1 chose Florida. They tell me that it is a state that is too expensive for a middle income ex-Pittsburgher to survive.

Contrary to the thinking of those who think that "if you don't like it then leave", I am not willing to be one of those individuals who cannot afford my home... then cannot leave because I am unable to sell it. Judging by the high volume of homes on the Florida market and the reduced number of serious buyers, I must not be alone in my pronounced caution.

My brothers father in law whois a retired teacher from Allentown, PA, and also runs his own local real estate firm purchased a very nice condo down here, with cash, for $129k (distressed seller/divorce settlement). He had it appraised for $170k after purchase. They are currently in the process of transferring their business interests down here, as there will be a runup in sales in the next couple of years once the folks on the sidelines jump in after valuations have moved towards intrinsic value vs. market value.

It's all based on your life situation, not some generalized assumptions as to whether ANY place is right or wrong for a particular individual.

As others have said, to create a thread in order to try to get others to reinforce assumptions you've already made, is a ludicrous effort @ best. Be POSITIVE and CONSTRUCTIVE or BE QUIET. "Silence is Golden".

Peace!

[gumbyfly]

Originally Posted by Retiredcoach

First time posting and am hopeful to garner your opinions. I will soon be retiring from my teaching position in Pennsylvania (within the next 5 years). I was hoping to buy a decent home in Florida sometime during 2006... we liked New Smyrna area best... but have stopped "dead in our tracks". The shoddy quality and associated prices of many single family homes in much of Florida are unrealistic and out of reach for many of us. We are still re-examining our financial direction and exploring options, however. The most crucial issue is that we do not have the same impressions of Florida that we did five years ago, and it goes beyond the threat of hurricanes. Florida can be very proud of its ethnic diversity, but should be ashamed of its financial diversity. Your statewide middle class is shrinking faster than probably any place that I have been in the country. The state appears to have a vocal affluent population, and then, the significant majority just hoping to scrape out a living. Housing appreciation was the biggest hope of many of your "working poor"... many must be quivering as the prices decline.

I mean no disrespect to anyone living in Florida, but more critical issues seem to arise every year that discount the appeal of your weather. For example, when I see an industry such as Disney with its megawealth and the focal point of much of the state's tourist economy paying such paltry wages/benefits to the majority of their workers, I question how many can survive in your very expensive state economy. This invariably translates into higher crime, poorer schools, and a disillusioned population paying for the services others cannot afford.

I look forward to your thoughts.

I live in Florida now, and before I moved here I compared hundreds of cities around the US, and have found that your complaints apply to EVERYWHERE. I even looked in Pennsylvania (Philadelphia and Pittsburgh), and the cost of housing there looked inflated compared to what jobs are paying - a lot more so than Florida. Every state has horrible builders who just throw up shoddy houses, every state has employers that pay its employees poorly, and every state has something about it politically that makes it seem unfavorable.

After living in about twelve different states so far, I have come to the conclusion that they are all bout the same - with the exception of the left coast and metroplitan areas in the Northeast, which are considerably more expensive to live in. The problems with most these days is, everyone expects to live in a huge home with two cars, with three kids and a dog, and thinks one person's mid-level salary will cover it all.

As long as you are living within your means, you can thrive anywhere - even in Florida.

[Retiredcoach]

It has been fully a year and a half since I first opened this post. It is good to see that the input is still coming. So many have offered opinions that I consider forthright and honest. Some are defensive and protective of personal decisions made, as I would be if I felt as I was being attacked, or criticized . My rationale for posting was to garner a cross-section of thoughts. One can always read about the atmosphere of a particular area (and attempt to sort through the hype and/or shortcomings), but finding individuals that share the same reservations and concerns as oneself... and find ways to confront them... offer opinions that have the greatest personal value to an outsider (as myself).

Five years ago, it was an almost "can't lose" proposition for one to move to Florida. Buying a home in your state was a winning proposition on all fronts. Who wouldn't want to spend the next 20 years of one's life in a tropical paradise? It seems that the risks were minimal, and the returns were great. Fast forward to 2008, and buying today appears to be more of a crap shoot instead of an investment in one's future. I guess that I am looking for someone to say that your state has more to offer than sunshine in the winter. I guess that I have been looking for a reason to "throw caution to the wind" and make the move. Like closing one's eyes and picking a random stock, I am having a difficult time justifying spending a significant amount of money that I appear destined to lose. Just my opinion, but I am being as honest as I possibly can....

[compelled to reply]

Originally Posted by Retiredcoach

Who wouldn't want to spend the next 20 years of one's life in a tropical paradise? It seems that the risks were minimal, and the returns were great.

Maybe to you. It sure as hell didn't seem that way to me. The type of bubble produced here was very unhealthy, unsustainable, and unnatural, there was no way that would continue. Sold pre-bubble place just in time, now I'm renting and I don't know where I'm heading next.