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Old 12-18-2006, 04:57 AM
 
Location: western East Roman Empire
6,562 posts, read 10,629,997 times
Reputation: 5660

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cil View Post
Once again, the exaggerations and overstatements.
Florida's problems are real enough and certainly require discussion; perhaps these exchanges would be more fruitful if y'all could turn down the vehemence and turn on the truthiness.
No doubt exaggerations are intelligence killers. They are used time and again the world over by people like politicians and their lackeys, journalists for example, as an easy ruse because of their sensationalism, their popularity, their ability to sway swathes of simple-minded people who repeat them as a mantra, isolating the blame for their perceived troubles on outside forces, the phantom enemy, shifting attention away from more important pursuits and dispersing potentially constructive energies.

 
Old 12-18-2006, 07:28 AM
 
Location: Tampa Bay
598 posts, read 2,033,282 times
Reputation: 208
Example:



Quote:
I think it's rediculous how some in this forum are eager to discredit anything that's not a "glowing positive" about their beloved Florida



Quote:
Originally Posted by cil View Post


Once again, the exaggerations and overstatements.
Florida's problems are real enough and certainly require discussion; perhaps these exchanges would be more fruitful if y'all could turn down the vehemence and turn on the truthiness.

Thanx for proving my point! lmao sheeeesh...
 
Old 12-18-2006, 09:54 AM
 
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
381 posts, read 1,547,904 times
Reputation: 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by cil View Post
How many people are saying this?!
In case you didn't read my earlier post about the dictionary defintion of "paradise," it means a place where someone can find "perfect happiness." Several people have been throwing around the term "paradise" without any explanation as to what they mean by it. Therefore, if I am to take people at their word, they must truly believe that Florida "perfect."

Granted, I don't actually believe that this is the case. But, nevertheless, people should be careful (on both sides of the fence) when it comes to their exaggerated descriptions of how good (or bad) Florida is.

It seems that I am failing in what I originally intended to do; that is not to spout how bad Florida is, but rather to counteract those who would have you believe that it is "paradise." If someone wants to live here in spite of all the problems which have been addressed in this forum, then that is just fine, and I can accept that they are happy.

However, for those who are happy here to say that someone else will be happy here and to ignore all of the issues the others on this forum are trying to address, is very deceptive and misleading.

And, although I agree with what bale002 said about wealth being in the heart, I don't think that that is what was originally meant by those who were saying that only "haves" can enjoy Florida (my summary), thus alluding that I, and most of the others on this forum who do not believe that Florida is paradise, are "have-nots," according to their definition.

In any case, I will personally try to tone down anything negative I have to observed about Florida, or at least start posting those things which I have observed that are positive (of which there are many, but I have not had the opportunity to say them for fear of giving the impression that I think Florida is "paradise"). If I have exuded anything which can be called "vehement," I apologize. That was not my intention.

~Kristina
 
Old 12-18-2006, 10:26 AM
 
Location: on an island
13,382 posts, read 40,859,068 times
Reputation: 13244
Quote:
Originally Posted by summergal View Post
Example:











Thanx for proving my point! lmao sheeeesh...
And just how did I do that?
Please school me, Summergal.
 
Old 12-18-2006, 10:46 AM
 
Location: on an island
13,382 posts, read 40,859,068 times
Reputation: 13244
Quote:
Originally Posted by SunshineBaby View Post
In case you didn't read my earlier post about the dictionary defintion of "paradise," it means a place where someone can find "perfect happiness." Several people have been throwing around the term "paradise" without any explanation as to what they mean by it. Therefore, if I am to take people at their word, they must truly believe that Florida "perfect."

Granted, I don't actually believe that this is the case.
Thank you, Kristina.

Summergal
When I look at what everyone has to say about Florida's problems, I do not see people jumping to discredit others when someone says something that is "less than glowingly positive."
I think I (and, I get the feeling, others) prefer a more even-handed, objective approach. I would never tell somebody "Come on down, you'll be happy here in paradise" nor would I say "Don't come down, you'll be sorry, thousands of people are leaving every day."
 
Old 12-18-2006, 11:21 AM
 
504 posts, read 1,640,195 times
Reputation: 335
I laughed at the people that said chickens were running wild in Tampa. Today I took some friends to Cass street very close to downtown and lo and behold chickens.
I have very few good things to say about Tampa or Florida for that matter so why doesn't wild chickens almost downtown surprise me?
If anyone plans on moving to Tampa they need to read the Tampa Tribune that came out December 17th it should give you an idea about what this cities priorities have been.
To the person who said they have never seen bars on windows does not live in Tampa or runs around with rose colored glasses.
 
Old 12-18-2006, 07:11 PM
 
Location: Tampa Bay
598 posts, read 2,033,282 times
Reputation: 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexander59 View Post
I laughed at the people that said chickens were running wild in Tampa. Today I took some friends to Cass street very close to downtown and lo and behold chickens.
I have very few good things to say about Tampa or Florida for that matter so why doesn't wild chickens almost downtown surprise me?
If anyone plans on moving to Tampa they need to read the Tampa Tribune that came out December 17th it should give you an idea about what this cities priorities have been.
To the person who said they have never seen bars on windows does not live in Tampa or runs around with rose colored glasses.
Thank you for confirming the "chicken stories"! I really appreciate you posting your position before and now after actually seeing what some of us HAVE SEEN! I was really bothered that people thought we were just making this stuff up...lol. A positive rep for you!
 
Old 12-18-2006, 08:46 PM
 
911 posts, read 3,245,316 times
Reputation: 178
[quote=verobeach;154118]
Quote:
Originally Posted by summergal View Post
But do you really think you could have moved here as a young couple 2 or 3 years ago and bought a $200K house, put your kids in private school and still handle all the increases without any trouble?
QUOTE]

What does Florida have to do with anything you write about? My son is under 30, has 3 kids, and just bought a house for $475,000 in a northern state. His wishes he had our property taxes! He has bills up the yingyang which he pays. Quietly, without whining.

Suck it up, Floridians. You're in 'paradise'. If you don't like it then leave but do so quietly. If I were from out-of-state, and l was reading all this bellyaching, I'd wonder not what was wrong with Florida, but what was wrong with Floridians. Florida, whether it be insurance costs, taxes, the cost of housing, etc. is no different than what is happening in the rest of the country. They just roll up their sleeves and meet their challenges instead of crying into their keyboard expecting sympathy.

Good Post Vero,

[fl whiners] Lions and tigers and bears oh my![fl whiners] lol hahahaha...
 
Old 12-18-2006, 09:49 PM
 
Location: Orlando, FL - used to be nice, a dump now. Anyone speak English down here???
340 posts, read 330,433 times
Reputation: 77
Red face You make a point on the generalities, but still....

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmyK View Post
Summergal, I disagree with you about this... Even if we take it as a given that someone is speaking from their own experience and about their particular area of FL, I still have a problem hearing the blanket statements that add up to "Florida is a living hell and you will be miserable here". I think I would have a problem with it if the statements were that ALL of Florida was "a perfect paradise and you will love it here" too; it's not just that they are negative comments. I know that the person is speaking from his/her own experience. Yes, that is a given. But it has started to be really irritating to hear about "Florida traffic", "Florida crime", "Florida jobs" when those things are different everywhere in FL, and what is being said about "FL" is simply not true where we live. I can take into account that that person is speaking about their own experience, but it gets to me when it would be so easy to say "I lost my job and I hate the traffic on I-4" instead of "Traffic is horrible in FL and you can count on a 2-hour commute (IF you make it there without being shot) to a job that you'll hate and lose to an illegal immigrant anyway". It's a very frustrating feeling, like someone is speaking for all of FL and everyone in FL -- and I feel like I should argue or disagree or something! As you said, it's a huge state and something that's true for one area or situation might not be true for another. I am hesitant to share my opinion, thinking I will be immediately labeled as an ostrich with my head in the sand, attacked for loving our life here, or hated for having enough $ (my husband works VERY hard, long hours, earns every penny of it!).
I understand your point about FL generics. I agree, maybe we need to focus more on local issues than generic issues. Sadly and oddly enough, some "local" issues are really regional issues. Take for example, my aunt in Windermere, FL. This is an area outside Orlando city limits. The issues we have to face in Orlando city limits (such as crime, or traffic) are no different than the ones she faces in Windermere (well, trying to get to work from/to Windermere). So, yes in those circumstances, people begin to make generic statements. I usually try to keep it local when it is a local issue, and generic for FL when it is an area issue. I usually break the areas down between South, Central, and North FL. I generally concentrate in areas of familiarity, such as South and Central FL, where I have lived, worked, etc.

Remember, issues like skyrocketing property taxes, absurdly high insurance (car and specially home) rates are insane. These are FLORIDA issues, it is pretty much the same across the board. I don't care if you live in Miami, Jax, Orlando, or Pensacola. You will get hit with astronomical property taxes and abusrd insurance costs. .. anywhere in FL.

As for you, I think you can be a middle fo the road person on this board. I tend to lean more towards the "dislike FL" because of the recent bad trends going around here, but I also ALWAYS point out some of the good points on my postings.

Keep on posting, I'd love to hear more from you.

Ps. Of Course IF you guys made that much money, then hey, FL is great (so will anywhere in the world with lots of $). But for the vast, vast majority of us, the regular folks, the middle class, the young couples, the starting families with kids, you must acknowledge: These groups will have a hell of a time living in South or Central FL. How can ANY family, or young couple live in a 2/2 or 2/1 apt and pay $1,100/mo??? Or how can you even pay $900/mo for a studio in Orlando on your own? How can anyone working on the majority of FL jobs (hotel, Disney, fast food, etc) at $7.50/h even pay their rent??? I guess the bottom line is.... is your "lots of money" prospective more accurate and more realistic than the "not so much money" perspective? Most people here don't make a whole lot of $.... are we not the majority then??

Or better yet, how can any young family buy a simple house for $250k and be able to pay for it every month and still be able to eat? Did you honestly feel safe going places at night in most areas of where you lived? Did you not endure at least 30+ minutes of bumper to bumper traffic to and from work? Is FL in general that wonderful that we all know all these people moving out or have moved out of state (count # of friends you have/had that moved out to other states to have a better life)?

These are real concerns that affect quality of life and really do matter to most folks. So keep in mind that most "negative on FL" posters are very concerned about these issues and want to alert other so they don't fall into this trap. Unless you are wealthy or have a job transfer paying over $100k per year, your live will be pathetic and mediocre at best.

Last edited by Christian11; 12-18-2006 at 09:59 PM..
 
Old 12-18-2006, 11:21 PM
 
911 posts, read 3,245,316 times
Reputation: 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian11 View Post
I understand your point about FL generics. I agree, maybe we need to focus more on local issues than generic issues. Sadly and oddly enough, some "local" issues are really regional issues. Take for example, my aunt in Windermere, FL. This is an area outside Orlando city limits. The issues we have to face in Orlando city limits (such as crime, or traffic) are no different than the ones she faces in Windermere (well, trying to get to work from/to Windermere). So, yes in those circumstances, people begin to make generic statements. I usually try to keep it local when it is a local issue, and generic for FL when it is an area issue. I usually break the areas down between South, Central, and North FL. I generally concentrate in areas of familiarity, such as South and Central FL, where I have lived, worked, etc.

Remember, issues like skyrocketing property taxes, absurdly high insurance (car and specially home) rates are insane. These are FLORIDA issues, it is pretty much the same across the board. I don't care if you live in Miami, Jax, Orlando, or Pensacola. You will get hit with astronomical property taxes and abusrd insurance costs. .. anywhere in FL.

As for you, I think you can be a middle fo the road person on this board. I tend to lean more towards the "dislike FL" because of the recent bad trends going around here, but I also ALWAYS point out some of the good points on my postings.

Keep on posting, I'd love to hear more from you.

Ps. Of Course IF you guys made that much money, then hey, FL is great (so will anywhere in the world with lots of $). But for the vast, vast majority of us, the regular folks, the middle class, the young couples, the starting families with kids, you must acknowledge: These groups will have a hell of a time living in South or Central FL. How can ANY family, or young couple live in a 2/2 or 2/1 apt and pay $1,100/mo??? Or how can you even pay $900/mo for a studio in Orlando on your own? How can anyone working on the majority of FL jobs (hotel, Disney, fast food, etc) at $7.50/h even pay their rent??? I guess the bottom line is.... is your "lots of money" prospective more accurate and more realistic than the "not so much money" perspective? Most people here don't make a whole lot of $.... are we not the majority then??

Or better yet, how can any young family buy a simple house for $250k and be able to pay for it every month and still be able to eat? Did you honestly feel safe going places at night in most areas of where you lived? Did you not endure at least 30+ minutes of bumper to bumper traffic to and from work? Is FL in general that wonderful that we all know all these people moving out or have moved out of state (count # of friends you have/had that moved out to other states to have a better life)?

These are real concerns that affect quality of life and really do matter to most folks. So keep in mind that most "negative on FL" posters are very concerned about these issues and want to alert other so they don't fall into this trap. Unless you are wealthy or have a job transfer paying over $100k per year, your live will be pathetic and mediocre at best.
These are real concerns that affect quality of life and really do matter to most folks.

Agreed these are Real Problems "Everywhere in America".
So they should be discussed and addressed Nationally.
Homes in most descent cities are $350,000.00 and Up...They are too expensive imho. But that goes beyond the scope of this forum...

Best Regards,
DLS
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