[SirenSong71]

Originally Posted by 121804

What state isn't suffering from the shadow of NCLB & standarized testing?

There are so many other ways to teach & evaluate children. Hopefully one day teachers will be allowed to be teachers & kids allowed to be kids in school.

Very, very true. NCLB is a complete waste of time and energy for both teacher and student.

BTW, I live in the East Penn school district in Pennsy. Even though it is ranked as one of the best in the country we have a HUGE amount of home-schooling here. That really surprised me! My kids are young (not in school yet) but I can't tell you how many moms tell me they're home schooling their kids...

[abbfabb69]

Originally Posted by Alphaman

I would like to know what makes Florida schools not as good as say New york.

Can someone please list the differences between what Florida offers vs a state with better schools.

I was wondering the same thing.
I'm from Philly and prbobally moving down to PSL and we were looking at the scores for PSL West and they were like, horrible, and we were wondering why the scores were so goddamned low.

[novanative75]

Originally Posted by abbfabb69

I was wondering the same thing.
I'm from Philly and prbobally moving down to PSL and we were looking at the scores for PSL West and they were like, horrible, and we were wondering why the scores were so goddamned low.

I am not familiar with that area but I am guessing it is because of the population. There are tons and tons of people here that do not Habla Anglais (sorry, I do not know Spanish so I might have spelled that wrong) and it is reflected in the scores. Also, a lot of low socio-economic areas and low test scores go hand in hand with that population as well. Again, I do not know that area, but am guessing that may be why.

[HockeyMom72]

Originally Posted by novanative75

I am not familiar with that area but I am guessing it is because of the population. There are tons and tons of people here that do not Habla Anglais (sorry, I do not know Spanish so I might have spelled that wrong) and it is reflected in the scores. Also, a lot of low socio-economic areas and low test scores go hand in hand with that population as well. Again, I do not know that area, but am guessing that may be why.

We used to live not far from Lely HS. We still own the condo. That area, other than Lely Resort, Fiddler's Creek, and a few others, is generally a very poor area. If I am correct, both the new Parkside Elementary and Manatee Elementary/Middle, have a very large economically disadvantaged and non-english speaking population. I think they also have a rather large migrant student population as well, but I would not swear to the latter. They are both Title 1 schools. All the student population demographics can be checked on each school's website. Put all the above factors together and it can cause problems.

Two little girls in class, bused into this wealthy North Naples school from the Manatee area, did not do their homework one night. Why? The older girl said that after Daddy bought food, there was no money left to pay the electric bill. The electricty was shut off and they had to go to Grandma's house to sleep. She said they will be there until Daddy can get the money to pay the electric bill. The older girl speaks very good English now and is doing well in school. Her younger sister is still having problems. These girls will probably one day go to Lely, if they stay here at all.

Our former neighbors also had a son who was bused to this same North Naples elementary school, basically because the family was disadvantaged. Their daughter went to Lely HS and was having problems. I will not go into details other than to say it involved the police at the school. Every time I saw the mother she was upset about something and constantly asking me for "favors". Although I did feel very sorry for them, I did not want to get personally involved in all their problems. It was not my job, nor was I qualified to do anything about it. I simply told her to contact the proper people at the school. Honestly, I was very happy to move away from there. Too close for comfort, so to speak.

Sorry, for going on for so long with this. It's all very sad, but what can you do? I had never experienced anything like this where I used to work, or live.

[abbfabb69]

Originally Posted by novanative75

I am not familiar with that area but I am guessing it is because of the population. There are tons and tons of people here that do not Habla Anglais (sorry, I do not know Spanish so I might have spelled that wrong) and it is reflected in the scores. Also, a lot of low socio-economic areas and low test scores go hand in hand with that population as well. Again, I do not know that area, but am guessing that may be why.

That makes a lot. of sense, because that's what happens with the kids here, they can;t speak english, let alone read or write it, and they just drop out senoir year because they learn they'll have to come back the next year as a 'super senior'.

[Eastern Roamer]

I posted this story in a thread under politics - "Cut Taxes, but at what expense?"

I don't have children, but I understand the importance of lower level school quality. This story affects me personally, and I may consider finishing my upper level college work in another state.

State: Cuts put colleges' summer in doubt

Call me a pessimist, but I see things getting worse, and maybe never getting better.

[CJFlorida]

Originally Posted by novanative75

I am not familiar with that area but I am guessing it is because of the population. There are tons and tons of people here that do not Habla Anglais (sorry, I do not know Spanish so I might have spelled that wrong) and it is reflected in the scores. Also, a lot of low socio-economic areas and low test scores go hand in hand with that population as well. Again, I do not know that area, but am guessing that may be why.

I try to ignore these things, but Florida bashers are simply not being accurate at all!

Honestly, for an educator, you should have the facts. Florida has made huge improvements and was 14th BEST in the country in a just released report!!

""Florida compared well with other states in public-education effectiveness, according to an annual report card issued by Education Week on Wednesday, but the study says the state still struggles in many key areas.
The state this year came in 14th overall on Education Week's Quality Counts report, earning a C-plus grade. Florida ranked 31st last year""

Also, Spanish speaking or English speaking is not relevant.

Detroit and surrounding areas, Philadelphia, Appalachia, the rural south, St. Louis, and many other vast parts of America have horrible problems with the schools. They have forever. And Spanish is not even a factor in any of those places.

Poorer areas have always had worse schools than wealthier areas...although there are a few exceptions.

Lets try to think things out here. Go find the states with the worst performing schools...it is not Florida. Go find the states that rank worse than Florida. And the tell us if Spanish speaking is even an issue in any of those states.

For example, Indiana has the highest rate of high school drop outs...not a lot of Spanish spoken there huh?

Oregon, at the bottom.... Monday, January 14. 2008 The results are in and Oregon is one of only 5 states in the nation to receive a D overall grade across all areas measured in the Education Week’s Quality Counts report just released.

Not a lot of Spanish speakers in Oregon!

In fact, every single one of the worst states has very few Spanish speaking folks!!!

Singling out Spanish speakers is wrong and closed minded.

[Retiredcoach]

I have been involved in public education since the 1970's as both a teacher and an administrator. I am about to retire from one of the best performing school districts in the state of Pennsylvania (academically, creatively, extracurriculars, awards, etc.). I believe that over 90% of last year's graduation class is attending 4 year colleges, many Ivy League. An ever-increasing number of our teachers hold masters and doctoral degrees. College credit can be earned Although initially my salary was embarrassingly low, I will retire with a salary that is roughly double what the average Florida teacher will make. In those early years, I was forced to work a second job, coach and still teach to make ends meet... my teaching quality and continuing education were on hold for years. Then, Pennsylvania, and specifically my school district, became serious about the education of our students.

All teachers were provided with individual laptops, with the eventual hope of becoming a "paperless" communication tool. Teacher inservicing is an ongoing process. Money is/was invested in software to address the needs of our disabled learners, who are fully included with their peers to the maximum level possible. Parents are able to access teachers via email any time of the day/night. Parents can check progress of their child daily via a program that avails teacher grade books as soon as grades are entered.

Fights, suspensions, and detentions are exceedingly rare. Each student is part of a learning team, as parents are involved as equal members. Drop-out rate is virtually non-existent. Home schooling does occur, but usually no later than middle school... parents who want the best education for their children are seeing the quality of our district. Teacher turnover is a rarity. Our district is concerned about over utilizing the PSSA (Pa's version to the FCAT) because it may force us to lower our standards. Computer accessibility, word processing, and foreign language is introduced in the elementary schools. School day and school year length have been increased to further meet the needs of the children.

Not sure if any/many Florida schools have standards and expectations as high, but is there any wonder why a northerner (as myself) would even consider relocating my children unless absolutely forced?

[novanative75]

Originally Posted by CJFlorida

I try to ignore these things, but Florida bashers are simply not being accurate at all!

Honestly, for an educator, you should have the facts. Florida has made huge improvements and was 14th BEST in the country in a just released report!!

""Florida compared well with other states in public-education effectiveness, according to an annual report card issued by Education Week on Wednesday, but the study says the state still struggles in many key areas.
The state this year came in 14th overall on Education Week's Quality Counts report, earning a C-plus grade. Florida ranked 31st last year""

Also, Spanish speaking or English speaking is not relevant.

Detroit and surrounding areas, Philadelphia, Appalachia, the rural south, St. Louis, and many other vast parts of America have horrible problems with the schools. They have forever. And Spanish is not even a factor in any of those places.

Poorer areas have always had worse schools than wealthier areas...although there are a few exceptions.

Lets try to think things out here. Go find the states with the worst performing schools...it is not Florida. Go find the states that rank worse than Florida. And the tell us if Spanish speaking is even an issue in any of those states.

For example, Indiana has the highest rate of high school drop outs...not a lot of Spanish spoken there huh?

Oregon, at the bottom.... Monday, January 14. 2008 The results are in and Oregon is one of only 5 states in the nation to receive a D overall grade across all areas measured in the Education Week’s Quality Counts report just released.

Not a lot of Spanish speakers in Oregon!

In fact, every single one of the worst states has very few Spanish speaking folks!!!

Singling out Spanish speakers is wrong and closed minded.

No one said that Florida schools are the worst in the country, of course there are states that are worse but that does not make Florida good simply because another is worse? That is like saying to a child that got a D on a paper that he did not do that bad because 15 other people got F's?
I personally hate rankings and prefer to use my expereince day to day in the schools here. You mention that Florida got a C+, well that proves a point, that is not good enough, in my opinion. If my child came home with all C+ grades, then we would need to figure out what was wrong.
You are sorely mistaken if you do not think that the ESOL population and the lower socio-economic population does not have anything to do with how 'good' a school is. Those schools with high populations in those areas score lower, it is a fact. In Florida especailly, when you see low test scores at a school, it is a safe assumption that there is a large ESOL population, it is the way it is. No one is saying it is good or bad or right or wrong, it is fact. The county I work in specifically, the lower performing schools have the largest ESOL and free./reduced lunch population, fact.
I am not singling out anyone but in Florida, the state that we are talking about here, the ESOl population is a huge factor in the states' test scores.
It is not bashing to state facts.

[novanative75]

Originally Posted by Retiredcoach

I have been involved in public education since the 1970's as both a teacher and an administrator. I am about to retire from one of the best performing school districts in the state of Pennsylvania (academically, creatively, extracurriculars, awards, etc.). I believe that over 90% of last year's graduation class is attending 4 year colleges, many Ivy League. An ever-increasing number of our teachers hold masters and doctoral degrees. College credit can be earned Although initially my salary was embarrassingly low, I will retire with a salary that is roughly double what the average Florida teacher will make. In those early years, I was forced to work a second job, coach and still teach to make ends meet... my teaching quality and continuing education were on hold for years. Then, Pennsylvania, and specifically my school district, became serious about the education of our students.

All teachers were provided with individual laptops, with the eventual hope of becoming a "paperless" communication tool. Teacher inservicing is an ongoing process. Money is/was invested in software to address the needs of our disabled learners, who are fully included with their peers to the maximum level possible. Parents are able to access teachers via email any time of the day/night. Parents can check progress of their child daily via a program that avails teacher grade books as soon as grades are entered.

Fights, suspensions, and detentions are exceedingly rare. Each student is part of a learning team, as parents are involved as equal members. Drop-out rate is virtually non-existent. Home schooling does occur, but usually no later than middle school... parents who want the best education for their children are seeing the quality of our district. Teacher turnover is a rarity. Our district is concerned about over utilizing the PSSA (Pa's version to the FCAT) because it may force us to lower our standards. Computer accessibility, word processing, and foreign language is introduced in the elementary schools. School day and school year length have been increased to further meet the needs of the children.

Not sure if any/many Florida schools have standards and expectations as high, but is there any wonder why a northerner (as myself) would even consider relocating my children unless absolutely forced?

It is nice to read your post as I come from a great school district as well, with a lot of the things you are talking about. For certain, my experience in a better school district has made me see the areas in which Florida is lacking, in my opinion. It is all relative, however, if you have never seen anything better, than this is best to you.