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Old 04-09-2015, 03:04 PM
 
Location: FLORIDA
8,964 posts, read 6,274,491 times
Reputation: 3380

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle19125 View Post
Exactly, and in such isn't the outrage over immigration issues perhaps a bit over-reactive versus more serious problems such as crime and gun control??

The GOP is (and has been) working overtime to stir the hate pot and keep the focus on "problems" such as gay marriage, immigration and services for the poor/seniors, versus gun control and income inequality (via lack of taxation) which are among the biggest issues we're facing as a nation and linked to lobbying groups protecting the special interests of a few. It's absolutely sinister, and nearly fool proof since so many clearly can't see what's behind the smokescreen.

Thats a tough subject, I'm not sure how I feel on the issue. I just know that locally, the Mexican population is respectful and hard working.
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Old 04-10-2015, 06:25 AM
 
21,207 posts, read 30,420,192 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ComSense View Post
Thats a tough subject, I'm not sure how I feel on the issue. I just know that locally, the Mexican population is respectful and hard working.
What's so tough about it? I mean it's not as if a large majority of immigrants are taking jobs away from Americans. Seriously, how many out of work Americans will work as dishwashers, landscapers, farm workers or doing low wage manual labor jobs? Back in 2010 the United Farm Workers had a well-publicized Take Our Jobs campaign asking unemployed Americans to apply for farm worker positions at a time when the unemployment rate was quite high at the height of the recession. I couldn't find numbers but I seem to recall nationwide they received about a whopping 1,000. Unfortunately it's been made into an issue to keep a certain demographic busy not noticing the harm being inflicted by the political party that they illogically keep voting for, and clearly they're not aware enough/intelligent enough to see through the smoke screen.
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Old 04-10-2015, 06:50 AM
 
1,417 posts, read 1,550,109 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle19125 View Post
What's so tough about it? I mean it's not as if a large majority of immigrants are taking jobs away from Americans. Seriously, how many out of work Americans will work as dishwashers, landscapers, farm workers or doing low wage manual labor jobs? Back in 2010 the United Farm Workers had a well-publicized Take Our Jobs campaign asking unemployed Americans to apply for farm worker positions at a time when the unemployment rate was quite high at the height of the recession. I couldn't find numbers but I seem to recall nationwide they received about a whopping 1,000. Unfortunately it's been made into an issue to keep a certain demographic busy not noticing the harm being inflicted by the political party that they illogically keep voting for, and clearly they're not aware enough/intelligent enough to see through the smoke screen.
I run into this issue all the time with various people who are full of hate and bile and can only talk about "sealing the border". In general, I agree with you - all of the jobs taken up are in the farm and manual labor sectors that pay nothing and have no benefits. People do not understand that this is what is propping up a huge portion of the economy. Most people don't want to think about what produce would cost were an ordinary American to take on working in the field with a high enough salary to survive and benefits that follow. Heck, most people I know have real trouble hiring proper help (the "born here" kind) - most locals hired into manual labor jobs prefer to move on to higher paying positions even when many times they do not have the education or desire to really work. However, on the other side of the issue is the crime that inevitably crosses the border together with the people who cross it just for work. The solution would be to have a legalized way for these hard working people to come and do their work and go back home when the season is finished. I think such a program exists, however, maybe it is not streamlined enough or easy enough? No idea. The other thing is that even with such a program, many people may not obey it and may want to overstay their visas. It is a tough issue to solve. I understand both sides.
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Old 04-10-2015, 09:03 AM
 
1,897 posts, read 2,152,580 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle19125 View Post
What's so tough about it? I mean it's not as if a large majority of immigrants are taking jobs away from Americans. Seriously, how many out of work Americans will work as dishwashers, landscapers, farm workers or doing low wage manual labor jobs? Back in 2010 the United Farm Workers had a well-publicized Take Our Jobs campaign asking unemployed Americans to apply for farm worker positions at a time when the unemployment rate was quite high at the height of the recession. I couldn't find numbers but I seem to recall nationwide they received about a whopping 1,000. Unfortunately it's been made into an issue to keep a certain demographic busy not noticing the harm being inflicted by the political party that they illogically keep voting for, and clearly they're not aware enough/intelligent enough to see through the smoke screen.
Finally a voice of reason as I largely agree with you. We are nation of Immigrants an will always will be so just because you may not like the "type" of immigrant coming over now doesn't give you right to be completely hateful towards them. If our congress would have fixed our broken immigration system in this country and made the process faster as well as smoother for new arrivals maybe some will not feel need to sneak into here.
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Old 04-10-2015, 11:50 AM
 
21,207 posts, read 30,420,192 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordyLordy View Post
However, on the other side of the issue is the crime that inevitably crosses the border together with the people who cross it just for work. The solution would be to have a legalized way for these hard working people to come and do their work and go back home when the season is finished. I think such a program exists, however, maybe it is not streamlined enough or easy enough? No idea. The other thing is that even with such a program, many people may not obey it and may want to overstay their visas. It is a tough issue to solve. I understand both sides.
I highly disagree regarding the crime aspect. Very little of the border area crime has to do with those crossing for employment and is overwhelmingly grounded within the failed DEA/Federal Government "War on Drugs". It's very well-documented which racial composition is overwhelmingly behind most of the crime stats in this country (relative to population) and it most certainly is not Mexicans crossing the border for jobs that most Americans have no interest in.
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Old 04-10-2015, 11:55 AM
 
21,207 posts, read 30,420,192 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fl1150 View Post
Finally a voice of reason as I largely agree with you. We are nation of Immigrants an will always will be so just because you may not like the "type" of immigrant coming over now doesn't give you right to be completely hateful towards them. If our congress would have fixed our broken immigration system in this country and made the process faster as well as smoother for new arrivals maybe some will not feel need to sneak into here.
And therein lies the real issue at hand, racism. Something tells me there wouldn't be discussion of a fence across the northern border if we were experiencing an influx of Canadians.
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Old 04-10-2015, 01:08 PM
 
1,417 posts, read 1,550,109 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle19125 View Post
I highly disagree regarding the crime aspect. Very little of the border area crime has to do with those crossing for employment and is overwhelmingly grounded within the failed DEA/Federal Government "War on Drugs". It's very well-documented which racial composition is overwhelmingly behind most of the crime stats in this country (relative to population) and it most certainly is not Mexicans crossing the border for jobs that most Americans have no interest in.
I was called out to be a juror in an upcoming trial here in TX (was not selected). The case was against someone who may or may not have been an illegal immigrant (all the info we were given pointed to the former) and who was accused of viciously beating someone. A few potential jurors got excluded based on objections to the fact that he was/could be illegal. I have to say I can at least try and understand their logic - why spend all the tax payer's money on trials and incarcerating someone who is not even a citizen and should not be here? It is silly, it is post-fact (he IS here and he may have attacked a citizen who deserves justice). You can say that that everyone should have a right to a fair trial and what-not but it is difficult to look past the basic things like cost of providing this justice to non-citizens. I think there is plenty of crime that comes from "down there" that crosses the border with the honest, hard working people. At the end of the day, making an easy and quick, legal route for the working folks to come over and work, get paid honestly and then leave is probably a good start. My guess, however, is that most of them will never go back and simply forego the legal visa status when it expires. I do not have the statistics on this obviously, just a wild guess . However, basic reason tells me that there will always be people who will profit from such illegal behavior since they do not have to pay a legal/decent wage to someone for work. Most people in this country are complicit in that behavior by engaging in the economy, even if to purchase tomatoes from a place that employs cheap and illegal immigrant labor. However, that's a systemic problem - cut off the cheap/illegal labor supply and suddenly half of the legal citizens cannot afford produce anymore. That can or cannot be easily fixed, have no idea.
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Old 04-10-2015, 03:24 PM
 
133 posts, read 234,212 times
Reputation: 99
Hmmm, Mexican's escaping to a better life are NOT the problem. The problem is with TERRORISTS freely moving across our unsecured borders.
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Old 04-10-2015, 03:27 PM
 
Location: South Beach and DT Raleigh
11,810 posts, read 18,822,626 times
Reputation: 11141
Quote:
Originally Posted by chopchop0 View Post
As long as FL doesn't adopt failed fiscally liberal budgets like Chicago, Detroit, cali, N.Y., nj etc, we will be in good shape as a fiscally conservative/socially moderate to liberal place
Yeah, instead Florida should follow Gov. Brownback's total ideological conservative destruction of Kansas' economy instead because.....you know....Jesus.
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Old 04-10-2015, 04:06 PM
 
10,575 posts, read 10,864,920 times
Reputation: 5225
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnc2mbfl View Post
Yeah, instead Florida should follow Gov. Brownback's total ideological conservative destruction of Kansas' economy instead because.....you know....Jesus.
One example. You have a few more to go. Keep trying.

And let Me know when ks has near the number of bankrupt cities like cali or Detroit
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