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I have been to the northeast a lot on business and have never seen worst roads.
You should do your own research. NE roads have an extremely high volume, including of weight from freight trucks - far more than anywhere in FL given that none of the cities compare in size to the largest cities of the NE (which by the way are all very close to each other and connected by the same few roads, so all share traffic from each other's cities). The roads also are subject to yearly freezing and thawing which breaks them apart and causes potholes, in addition to annual flooding from snow melt, and the ravages of salting the roads all winter because of the snow. Those roads cost an unbelievable amount to maintain. Florida's roads face nothing close to the same challenges, and are by comparison very easy and cheap to keep in good shape (without hurricanes and coastal saltwater flooding).
People who have not lived in both places often do not have a good understanding of the differences between the states, and what they provide to the public. NE cities generally have a million times more resources available, for free, to their residents. There are endless non-profits there also that help people get them. As an educator, I have also seen the difference in schools, museums, parks, transportation - all things that kids in the NE can get for free or low cost and at much higher standard, that have no real comparable equivalents in FL. I still have chosen to live in this state, so I am not decrying its better points. But public works and non-profit resources for those in need are nowhere near comparable for the amount of money that comes into the state of FL. People come here who are the wealthiest in the world, and all they do is take. There is not as much of a tradition of philanthropy to non-profit institutions in FL, and they do not add their tax dollars either. And the govt. cares for its citizens poorly in FL. If you could say that they "care" at all... Scott has made it incredibly clear that he cares about corporations, and not the needs of working citizens. They give these corporations major tax breaks, and then they do not reward FL citizens with higher wage jobs, better benefits, nor even the loyalty to stay here when they get the opportunity to outsource overseas. Rather, FL has significantly lower wages and benefit packages on average compared with the same positions in the NE, even while those corporations are paying much more money to stay in those states. So there is little benefit at all to local people of the tax structure in the state.
In a city like Miami in particular, the cost of living is not significantly lower than in major NE cities, while the wages are SIGNIFICANTLY lower. I found it livable only because I made high wages, because I was highly skilled and recruited to come there. But the lack of state income tax did not make up for the amount lost in wages compared with the same job in a Northern city. Rent was still high, as were grocery costs, car insurance, and other daily expenses. And the public schools, transportation, parks, museums, etc. were sorely lacking or charged money, vs. having access to many options for free in Northern cities. In Miami, you can't even park at a beach for free, nor is there easy public transportation to the beaches, which is a crime in my eyes for a coastal city whose main attraction is the beach. All residents should have easy and free access to the thing they pay such high rents and property taxes for. Teachers are also paid only 66% of what they are paid up North, for the exact same job. And it is no surprise that that standards for what kids need to know in Florida are much lower. School "grades" mean nothing when the fundamental topics they are learning are so much less challenging than in other states.
People who have not been residents in both places, or have not worked in the govt. or non-profit sector in both places, don't realize the huge difference in value for your dollar and the work that you put in. Florida could do a lot better for its residents, if its residents held it to a higher standard. But it does not, because half of the people who move here are retired and don't care about the locals, and most of the rest are checked out trying to live the "vacation" life and don't want to think about these things. For all the money that comes into the state, people in FL deserve more resources, and better public facilities. Having no state income tax blinds people to the reality that they are getting less for their money.
When auto, home insurance rates are higher than national average, wages 15% lower than the national average (bls.gov), home prices in large cities higher than national average and other taxes increasing every year (tax, licenses, etc) does this argument even hold up?
I personally think it's ridiculous to pay state and federal income taxes. I used to live in Florida (currently living in California) and will be moving back to Florida end of this year or January of next year. State income taxes punish working people and gives the state a reason to create more needless pet projects. Spending is out of control in government, the last thing they need is more money! For all those people who think the grass is greener on the other side should move to California.
don't worry - most of us are aware that the cost of living in Cali and NY are pretty damn high - really not sure why OP believes that just because insurance rates and wages are lower, that we shouldn't be happy that we're not paying state income tax on top of all of that.....non sequitur.
don't worry - most of us are aware that the cost of living in Cali and NY are pretty damn high - really not sure why OP believes that just because insurance rates and wages are lower, that we shouldn't be happy that we're not paying state income tax on top of all of that.....non sequitur.
I just don't get it with these people that want to turn Florida into NY or CA without having even lived in either state. It's the reason why I'm LEAVING those kinds of states.
Its not an ARGUMENT per se, but people (on this forum in particular) use it as an excuse to move here.
Because it's a great excuse if you make similar money here vs ne or west coast. Sales taxes and property taxes are also very reasonable here (both lower than tx and most places up north or out west)
When auto, home insurance rates are higher than national average, wages 15% lower than the national average (bls.gov), home prices in large cities higher than national average and other taxes increasing every year (tax, licenses, etc) does this argument even hold up?
All of the other states that have an income tax have all these other taxes PLUS a state income tax.
" People come here who are the wealthiest in the world, and all they do is take. "
Not too many millionaires around FL as far as I know. Maybe 300,000 out of 20,000,000.
Take what from where?
In the N.E. taxes do provide amenities but they are used, actually abused, by a lot people who pay no taxes at all. In FL, for instance, it is more geared towards pay for it as you use it. That cuts down on abuse of facilities that those of us who pay for these things like to enjoy.
FL is not in the business of supporting or subsidizing its population although most counties have lots of programs for the poor or low income residents.
There is no such thing as free in the NE as someone is paying the tab for those who dont contribute.
There is a reason that so many southerners moved north. Better benefits. More teat to suckle on.
I'd rather have a state where most people have to pull their own weight vs. having everything handed to them "for free".
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarfishKey
You should do your own research. NE roads have an extremely high volume, including of weight from freight trucks - far more than anywhere in FL given that none of the cities compare in size to the largest cities of the NE (which by the way are all very close to each other and connected by the same few roads, so all share traffic from each other's cities). The roads also are subject to yearly freezing and thawing which breaks them apart and causes potholes, in addition to annual flooding from snow melt, and the ravages of salting the roads all winter because of the snow. Those roads cost an unbelievable amount to maintain. Florida's roads face nothing close to the same challenges, and are by comparison very easy and cheap to keep in good shape (without hurricanes and coastal saltwater flooding).
People who have not lived in both places often do not have a good understanding of the differences between the states, and what they provide to the public. NE cities generally have a million times more resources available, for free, to their residents. There are endless non-profits there also that help people get them. As an educator, I have also seen the difference in schools, museums, parks, transportation - all things that kids in the NE can get for free or low cost and at much higher standard, that have no real comparable equivalents in FL. I still have chosen to live in this state, so I am not decrying its better points. But public works and non-profit resources for those in need are nowhere near comparable for the amount of money that comes into the state of FL. People come here who are the wealthiest in the world, and all they do is take. There is not as much of a tradition of philanthropy to non-profit institutions in FL, and they do not add their tax dollars either. And the govt. cares for its citizens poorly in FL. If you could say that they "care" at all... Scott has made it incredibly clear that he cares about corporations, and not the needs of working citizens. They give these corporations major tax breaks, and then they do not reward FL citizens with higher wage jobs, better benefits, nor even the loyalty to stay here when they get the opportunity to outsource overseas. Rather, FL has significantly lower wages and benefit packages on average compared with the same positions in the NE, even while those corporations are paying much more money to stay in those states. So there is little benefit at all to local people of the tax structure in the state.
In a city like Miami in particular, the cost of living is not significantly lower than in major NE cities, while the wages are SIGNIFICANTLY lower. I found it livable only because I made high wages, because I was highly skilled and recruited to come there. But the lack of state income tax did not make up for the amount lost in wages compared with the same job in a Northern city. Rent was still high, as were grocery costs, car insurance, and other daily expenses. And the public schools, transportation, parks, museums, etc. were sorely lacking or charged money, vs. having access to many options for free in Northern cities. In Miami, you can't even park at a beach for free, nor is there easy public transportation to the beaches, which is a crime in my eyes for a coastal city whose main attraction is the beach. All residents should have easy and free access to the thing they pay such high rents and property taxes for. Teachers are also paid only 66% of what they are paid up North, for the exact same job. And it is no surprise that that standards for what kids need to know in Florida are much lower. School "grades" mean nothing when the fundamental topics they are learning are so much less challenging than in other states.
People who have not been residents in both places, or have not worked in the govt. or non-profit sector in both places, don't realize the huge difference in value for your dollar and the work that you put in. Florida could do a lot better for its residents, if its residents held it to a higher standard. But it does not, because half of the people who move here are retired and don't care about the locals, and most of the rest are checked out trying to live the "vacation" life and don't want to think about these things. For all the money that comes into the state, people in FL deserve more resources, and better public facilities. Having no state income tax blinds people to the reality that they are getting less for their money.
" People come here who are the wealthiest in the world, and all they do is take. "
Not too many millionaires around FL as far as I know. Maybe 300,000 out of 20,000,000.
Take what from where?
In the N.E. taxes do provide amenities but they are used, actually abused, by a lot people who pay no taxes at all. In FL, for instance, it is more geared towards pay for it as you use it. That cuts down on abuse of facilities that those of us who pay for these things like to enjoy.
FL is not in the business of supporting or subsidizing its population although most counties have lots of programs for the poor or low income residents.
There is no such thing as free in the NE as someone is paying the tab for those who dont contribute.
There is a reason that so many southerners moved north. Better benefits. More teat to suckle on.
I'd rather have a state where most people have to pull their own weight vs. having everything handed to them "for free".
Over the last few years the insurance companies have increased our homeowners insurance in NJ (to make up for Sandy losses) so it now equals our FL HO insurance.
Sales tax in NJ 7%, Sales tax in FL 7%.
NJ income tax in 2014 $5,545, FL $0.
Carrying costs for houses: NJ $22,000, FL $12,000.
Health insurance (I'm not 65 yet): NJ $1100/mo, FL $700/mo.
Both now retired so income not an issue. Not in need of any "free" services either.
Where do you think we're going to relocate to?
And the condition of the roads and bridges in NJ suck big time.
"There was a time when people moved to an area to work hard and prosper, start a businees and make their own way. Now people rave about an area for its public support. That is great I guess if you are chronically unmotivated and poor. The taxes in Boston are ridiculous"
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