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Old 11-10-2015, 06:50 PM
 
Location: Reading PA
174 posts, read 202,284 times
Reputation: 217

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vascodagama View Post
I keep hearing that ocean levels are rising and Florida is supposed to be one of the areas affected by rising ocean levels. I'm a ocean boater and have launched from concrete boat ramps for decades but I have never noticed a change to the average water levels when taking the tide changes into consideration.

So with all the boaters and home owners on the water has anyone has noticed any changes to the ocean water levels?
Think about it my friend. You are asking people if they notice water level differences. Let me ask you this; It is a fact that most glaciers and much of the polar ice is melting (photo documented over the last 30 years). Where do you think all that water is going? To outer space? Even if it is evaporating into the atmosphere, it will eventually end up in the oceans. Commonsense would lead one to believe that ocean levels therefore will rise. Let the evidence speak for itself. Like previous posters have said bury your head in the sand and go ahead and buy that beachfront property and watch it slowly ebb away over time. There is a story in the Bible about building on sand.
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Old 11-10-2015, 07:00 PM
 
1,448 posts, read 2,117,568 times
Reputation: 2354
This back and forth seems completely irrelevant to me, although I appreciate that it is relatively polite for the FL forum...

The point is, there are many, many measurable changes in the past 100 years that affect FL residents and prospective buyers. These changes affect the frequency and severity of our storms, the health and population of our wildlife, and the health of humans as well as their quality of life. One cannot deny that with all the "advancements" of the 1950s chemical revolution (and the entire Industrial Revolution before that), we in the US did not actually make progress in chronic multi-systemic diseases, nor in environmental health. We also have not made any advancements in civility and human connection whatsoever. If anything, there is a great deal of evidence showing that we have lost ground on all three fronts.

For Floridians, our current way of life results in a very high incidence of cancers and chronic diseases in our homes, and the current state of affairs climate-wise means we are dealing with more devastating storms outside our homes.

It does not make any difference whether factory emissions raise the global temperature. Factory emissions are full of deadly chemicals and are mutating our cells RIGHT NOW, as well as the cells of wildlife around us. The products they make are loaded with chemicals that by and large are also proven to be cancerous (and in the case of processed food production, deliberately addictive on top of being cancerous). It does not make any difference if factory emissions are causing sea level rise and therefore flooding, or sea temperature rise and therefore stronger hurricanes. The reality is, anyone who lives anywhere in the state of Florida is subject to wind damage and flooding, and the entire state should be investing in measures which will protect our infrastructure and our buildings. The upside is, doing this also creates a great deal of jobs, both in labor, and in new innovations and problem solving.

The Action Items are:


1. As a citizen, protect yourself by buying a house that is hurricane-proofed, in a neighborhood that is hurricane-proofed. Don't expect insurance to cover the inevitable destruction of your 1950s ground-level, because in a terrible catastrophe they probably won't, or it will take over a year to get you that check and a lot of work. Protect yourself by buying products that are as natural and chemical-free as possible. There are instances where chemicals have helped our civilization, but they are few and far between, so in most cases you want to cut that stuff out of your life and find a less poisonous method of solving your problems.

2. As a citizen, vote with your dollars. Support smaller companies that help your local environment. Buy houses that reflect our responsibility to the world around us, as well as to the protection of our families.

3. As a citizen, vote any representative who does not work for sturdier buildings and infrastructure, and cleaner environment and products, right out of office. Vote people who support a healthier Florida in. We have a government, we pay for it with our tax dollars, and it is supposed to work for us - not for corporations who don't even pay anything into our state. We should have public services for that money, and clean and beautiful outdoor environments to enjoy with our families and friends long into the future. We should be aggressively protecting our parks, and revamping our way of life to stop pumping chemicals into our bodies and the water and soil around us.

4. As a citizen, stop wasting time and energy fighting with each other, and start putting these action items into place. We should all have cheap, organic, local food at our disposal - like our grandparents once did. We should all have beautiful natural surroundings to enjoy - like our grandparents once did. We should have the benefits of modern society work for us to create ready-to-use, easy products that are both natural and waste-free, and help protect us from harm. For instance, the product we use to prevent one type of cancer, should not be causing two others at the same time.

5. As a citizen, support initiatives to develop new ideas that combine technology with protection of our natural resources. Hold companies and politicians responsible, heavily regulate or ban altogether things that hurt us (the freedom to kill yourself slowly is not actually a freedom, nor worth fighting for), and ensure that new products that are healthy and good for the environment are rewarded with our dollars.

6. As a citizen, demand that our state invest heavily in a better-supported and more rigorous public education for our children, so that the next generation will turn out more capable and more informed than we (and our parent's generation) did. Teachers should be paid well to inspire our children's minds and critical thinking, not paid the least of any equivalent degree and forced to dumb our children down with endless multiple choice questions in endless standardized testing. If it were a competitive field, we would attract better quality and could choose among the applicants. Teachers in the poorest, most under-served districts should be paid the most and be the best, because they have the hardest job ahead of them. Teach our children to be actual scientists, so they can learn more about the world around them than we have. They will need to be capable of fixing a world in utter chaos and violence, that we have left behind for them. They will also need to do that while likely managing cancer or an autoimmune disease, so they will need to be able to use their mind efficiently.


We are in a society. We need to start acting like it. We are supposed to have common sense. We need to start acting like we have some. None of this is really that complicated, or much of a leap in thinking.

Last edited by StarfishKey; 11-10-2015 at 07:08 PM..
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Old 11-11-2015, 04:53 AM
 
3,626 posts, read 3,051,439 times
Reputation: 7518
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbronston View Post
I also don't believe hundreds of thousands of jobs should be lost in pursuit of what might be and I don't give a rip about what Europe thinks.
Most economists believe that there will be net zero effect on jobs as a result of increased emission limits. The thinking is the number of jobs lost in dirty industry will be equaled or exceeded by new jobs in clean energy.
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Old 11-11-2015, 05:03 AM
 
Location: Lakewood Ranch, FL
5,300 posts, read 8,094,500 times
Reputation: 6359
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1insider View Post
Most economists believe that there will be net zero effect on jobs as a result of increased emission limits. The thinking is the number of jobs lost in dirty industry will be equaled or exceeded by new jobs in clean energy.
That sounds good in theory and it might well be true but that does nothing to help the people who will actually lose their jobs. I doubt that coal miners will be working on wind turbines or manufacturing solar panels, as an example. The job numbers may shift to a net zero but the jobs for these people will most likely be gone.
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Old 11-11-2015, 05:19 AM
 
Location: Punta Gorda, FL
773 posts, read 529,240 times
Reputation: 980
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vascodagama View Post
The sea levels are not rising due to global warming. Our biggest threat is the people behind this agenda.
Since you already know, why did you even post this? Go buy whatever Florida real estate you want and in 50 years have a good laugh on "the people behind this agenda."

Let us know where you buy and where the good deals are on the water.
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Old 11-11-2015, 06:10 AM
 
Location: NC Piedmont
3,911 posts, read 2,847,346 times
Reputation: 6289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tujuleez1 View Post
Since you already know, why did you even post this? Go buy whatever Florida real estate you want and in 50 years have a good laugh on "the people behind this agenda."

Let us know where you buy and where the good deals are on the water.
You can probably buy your own island in a tropical paradise for cheap:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRzO4HlPUUw
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Old 11-11-2015, 08:46 AM
 
3,626 posts, read 3,051,439 times
Reputation: 7518
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbronston View Post
That sounds good in theory and it might well be true but that does nothing to help the people who will actually lose their jobs. I doubt that coal miners will be working on wind turbines or manufacturing solar panels, as an example. The job numbers may shift to a net zero but the jobs for these people will most likely be gone.
Jobs are lost all the time to better technology. Buggy builders gave way to auto workers and on and on. We shouldn't be clinging to one of the dirtiest most damaging industries in America just because we want those guys to keep their crappy dangerous jobs in a hole in the ground. There are already more jobs in the US solar industry than in the US coal industry and solar doesn't poison the water nor do wind turbines. It would be cheaper to retrain coal miners for other jobs than to clean up the chemical and by-product spills anyway. We would be getting away from burning coal even if it wasn't so polluting.
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Old 11-11-2015, 11:13 AM
 
Location: Lakewood Ranch, FL
5,300 posts, read 8,094,500 times
Reputation: 6359
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1insider View Post
Jobs are lost all the time to better technology. Buggy builders gave way to auto workers and on and on. We shouldn't be clinging to one of the dirtiest most damaging industries in America just because we want those guys to keep their crappy dangerous jobs in a hole in the ground. There are already more jobs in the US solar industry than in the US coal industry and solar doesn't poison the water nor do wind turbines. It would be cheaper to retrain coal miners for other jobs than to clean up the chemical and by-product spills anyway. We would be getting away from burning coal even if it wasn't so polluting.
I agree but those better products and technologies grew out of genuine market demands, I think, not government-imposed changes. This change you are discussing would essentially replace a cheaper source of energy with a more expensive source and most people don't want to spend more money for power and the goods and services they consume. Let's face it, if solar and wind turbines were really ready for prime time, they would be everywhere and we would not need to use the old technologies. Personally, I'd like to see affordable (not because tax payers have to subsidize them but due to design and economies of scale) solar electricity producing panels on every commercial building rooftop. I think that would be a great way to reduce coal-fired power plant emissions. Apparently, it isn't cost effective. And, just to keep the conversation honest, as much as everyone hates smokestacks and poisons in the ground and air, the production of solar panels isn't without its own dangerous chemicals, recycling issues, etc. There is no free lunch. The old "all-of-the-above" energy policy is really the only realistic policy until newer, more-efficient and cost-effective alternatives can be developed but private companies (of all stripes) should not receive tax-payer funding, IMO. That's what led to the Solyndra fiasco and, if I recall correctly, the Fisker Auto loans being unpaid...I'm too lazy to look that up so that might be wrong.
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Old 11-11-2015, 02:47 PM
 
3,626 posts, read 3,051,439 times
Reputation: 7518
You win.
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Old 11-11-2015, 04:09 PM
 
Location: Lakewood Ranch, FL
5,300 posts, read 8,094,500 times
Reputation: 6359
Sorry...I know I have a bit of bull dog in me. Didn't mean to beat it to death.
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