[CindyRoos]

Originally Posted by CapnTrips

I am sorry to hear about your friend, and I can only imagine the feeling one gets when threatened by a family member -- truly a terrible thing.

However, with all due respect to you and your friends and family (really), I refuse to accept that I cannot make my own choices when it comes to firearms just because other people make bad ones. Yes, some people's lives are hurt by firearms, but it is also true that guns are successfully used in self defense by many people. This is evidenced by news articles which can be researched by anyone. Why must I give up my liberty and my safety to protect other people from their own choices or misfortunes?


Sorry to get off topic. I do agree that in the small spaces of the Keys, firearms use pose a particular hazard, and it is not unreasonable to regulate their use in that context.

I agree as well.

[Spring Hillian]

Kitchen knife, baseball bat, heavy door stop, hands and fists and many other household items can be used to cause injury or death upon another. Firearms dont kill people. People kill people.

[HWTechGuy]

Originally Posted by StarfishKey

Guns in the home are a far greater threat to women than intruders are.

Absolute nonsense.

[macrodome2]

I do hope that Scott signs the legislation. Given that he was the one who enacted a policy that did not allow individual municipalities to regulate private gun ranges in their own towns and he said he would personally go after any local official who tired, I wonder if he will sign the legislation.

BTW- the home shooting range in a crowded neighborhood was what I was referring to when I commented on gun owners rights vs non-gun owners. If the non-gun owners have to go inside and can't be out on their own property because some numnuts decides to turn his little back yard into a shooting range instead of going to a real range, that's where one groups rights is taking precedence over another. If you live in Alaska or Montana or on plenty of land, have at it. In fact, you probably need a gun with all the predators.

[Fredesch]

I am always for restrictions on guns. If you weren't in the army, marines, military special forces or former police (local, state or federal), you have no business having a gun. If you want to shoot guns join the army or marines.

[1AngryTaxPayer]

Originally Posted by StarfishKey

If this thread is going to become a thread about supporting guns as "self-defense" rather than about the legislation as it pertains to the Keys (which was why it was written), let's at least consider real facts.

The fact is, a woman is statistically far less safe with a gun in the home than without a gun in the home. A "responsible" gun owner means nothing - a lot of the men who shoot their female partners have training in how to use guns, keep them locked up, and otherwise generally follow the guidelines for responsible gun ownership... up until they get angry or feel desperate.

Guns in the home are far more likely to be used accidentally, by children, in suicide, against the owner, or by a domestic partner, than they are to be used in successfully fending off an intruder.

My friend and her 2 children were all killed by her husband with a gun he bought "for protection" just a month earlier, before he then turned that gun on himself. He had no prior history of domestic violence that anyone knows of, and was a well-liked guy by all who knew him. To everyone's knowledge, they had a long and happy marriage with no major issues. But he was going through depression, and money troubles. My friend was very against him buying the gun and bringing it into the home, and told others they had a fight about it. He bought it anyway. A month later he had killed them all. I have multiple other female friends who have been terrorized by guns in the home, sometimes by partners who are military members or cops.

My problem is not that private guns are legal. My problem is how ill-informed the public is about them, and how hard men tend to fight for something that is so detrimental to women and children statistically. They're so worried about defending their families against faceless intruders, but do nothing to manage their own rage issues, depression, controlling behavior, communication problems, and machismo. Then they either turn the gun on themselves, or their wives, or threaten their kids with them. I myself was threatened by my father with the guns he kept in our home, because he did not know how to deal with anger and loss of total control.

Pretending these stories are uncommon is ridiculous. Guns in the home are a far greater threat to women than intruders are. Domestic violence is incredibly common, and these statistics only include the instances that were reported - which means when the police were called and/or a death occurred. Most incidents of domestic violence go unreported. A woman is FAR more likely to suffer domestic violence than have to fight off an intruder or stranger.



The Facts on Guns and Domestic Violence:

Guns and domestic violence are a lethal combination - injuring and killing women every day in the United States. A gun is the weapon most commonly used in domestic homicides. In fact, more than 3 times as many women are murdered by guns used by their husbands or intimate acquaintances than are killed by strangers’ guns, knives or other weapons combined.

Contrary to many public perceptions, many women who are murdered are killed not by strangers but by men they know.

• Nearly one-third of all women murdered in the United States in recent years were murdered by
a current or former intimate partner. In 2000, 1,247 women, more than three a day, were killed
by their intimate partners.

• Of females killed with a firearm, almost 2/3 were killed by their intimate partners.

• Access to firearms increases the risk of intimate partner homicide more than 5 times more
than in instances where there are no weapons, according to a recent study. In addition, abusers
who possess guns tend to inflict the most severe abuse on their partners.

• In 2002, 54 percent of female homicide victims were shot and killed with a gun.

• Handguns are more likely than rifles or shotguns to be used in homicides in which men kill
women. In 2002, handguns were used in 73 percent of cases where men used firearms to kill
women.

• In homicides where males use firearms to kill women, handguns are the most commonly used
weapon, over rifles and shotguns. 73% percent of all female were killed with a handgun.

• In 1998, for every 1 woman who used a handgun to kill an intimate acquaintance in self-
defense, 83 women were murdered by an intimate acquaintance using a handgun.

• A study of women physically abused by current or former intimate partners found a 5-fold
increased risk of the partner murdering the woman when the partner owned a gun.

• Domestic violence misdemeanor convictions and restraining orders were the second most
common reason for denials of handgun purchase applications between 1994 and 1998.

• From 1998 to 2001, more than 2,800 people with misdemeanor domestic violence convictions
were able to purchase guns without being identified by the National Instant Criminal
Background Check System.

Alcohol or drug use significantly increases these risks.


Sources:
i
When Men Murder Women: An Analysis of 2002 Homicide Data: Females Murdered by Males in Single Victim/Single Offender Incidents.2004. Violence Policy Center. Washington, DC. Retrieved January 9, 2004 http://www.vpc.org/studies/wmmw2004....ics/WMMW03.pdf.
ii
Rennison, Callie Marie and Sarah Welchans. 2003.Intimate Partner Violence 1993-2001. U.S. Department of Justice Bureau of Justice Statistics. Washington, DC. Retrieved January 9, 2004.
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/abstract/ipv01.htm.
iii
When Men Murder Women: An Analysis of 2002 Homicide Data: Females Murdered by Males in Single Victim/Single Offender Incidents. 2004. Violence Policy Center. Washington, DC. Retrieved January 9, 2004.
http://www.vpc.org/studies/wmmw2004.pdf
iv
J. C. Campbell, D; Webster, J; Koziol-McLain, C. R; et al. 2003. Risk Factors For Femicide in Abusive Relationships: Results From A Multi-Site Case Control Study. American Journal of Public Health. 93(7).
v
When Men Murder Women: An Analysis of 2001 Homicide Data: Females Murdered by Males in Single Victim/Single Offender Incidents. 2003. Violence Policy Center. Washington, DC. Retrieved January 9, 2004.
http://www.vpc.org/graphics/WMMW03.pdf.
vi
When Men Murder Women: An Analysis of 2002 Homicide Data: Females Murdered by Males in Single Victim/Single Offender Incidents. 2004. Violence Policy Center. Washington, DC. Retrieved January 9, 2004.
http://www.vpc.org/studies/wmmw2004.pdf
vii
A Deadly Myth: Women, Handguns, and Self-Defense.2001. Violence Policy Center. Washington, DC. Retrieved January 9, 2004. VPC - A Deadly Myth: Women, Handguns, and Self-Defense.
Viii
Firearms and Intimate Partner Violence.2003. Johns Hopkins University Center for Gun Policy and Research. Retrieved January 9, 2004. http://www.jhsph.edu/gunpolicy/IPV_firearms.pdf.
ix
Manson, D.A., Gillard, D.K., Lauver, G. 1999.A National Estimate: Presale Handgun Checks, the Brady Interim Period, 1994-98. Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. Department of Justice. Washington, DC. Retrieved January9,2004.http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/phc98.pdf.
x
Opportunities to Close Loopholes in the National
Instant Criminal Background Check System.2002.Report to the Ranking Member, Committee on the Judiciary, House of Representatives. General Accounting Office. Washington, DC.”
---------
For those in need of help:
The National Domestic Violence Hotline, 24/7, safe, anonymous hotline provides crisis intervention, information, safety planning, and referrals to community agencies.:
1-800-799-SAFE (7233) | 1-800-787-3224 (TTY)

Prevent Child Abuse America offers information to parents who need help controlling their anger. Prevent Child Abuse America - ...because children are our future

The Domestic Abuse Helpline for Men and Women offers intervention and support to victims of anger and domestic violence. http://www.dahmw.org/

The National Coalition Against Domestic Violence offers abundant information on anger resolution, creating a family safety plan, and identity protection for victims of anger and abuse. Home

Safehorizon offers support, anger management counseling, and resources to victims of anger and domestic violence and to those who need assistance controlling their anger.
1-800-621-HOPE (4673)

Did you catch the thread about the guy decapitating his Grandma and Grandpa....with a knife? Violent people aren't going to stop because they have no access to a gun.

[kokonutty]

Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer

Did you catch the thread about the guy decapitating his Grandma and Grandpa....with a knife? Violent people aren't going to stop because they have no access to a gun.

He shot them first, then decapitated them. What's your point?

[bbronston]

Originally Posted by Fredesch

I am always for restrictions on guns. If you weren't in the army, marines, military special forces or former police (local, state or federal), you have no business having a gun. If you want to shoot guns join the army or marines.

Why? Do you suppose that there was some sort of special fairy dust sprinkled on the members of the military and law enforcement?

Anyone who wants to receive training can get training. Anyone who practices can get better and better. I'd love to see municipal gun ranges that offer free training and range time to everyone because I believe the answer to most concerns regarding guns is proper training and practice. It will never happen in today's political climate, though.

One other thing...Not everyone who buys a gun buys it for self defense, hunting, or nefarious purposes. Many, many people just enjoy target shooting of one type or another. There is a huge recreational aspect to it, just as there is with archery, darts, etc. It is fun and challenging. You should try it sometime. BUT, doing it in a residential backyard or side yard is irresponsible and obnoxious, and the state law that rightly ended the problematic local patchwork of arbitrary laws inadvertently created an opportunity for irresponsible and obnoxious neighbors to do what they do best with impunity. With this new change, the issue should become moot.

[1AngryTaxPayer]

Originally Posted by kokonutty

He shot them first, then decapitated them. What's your point?

I see. No gun no killing. You really believe that?



I don't think some guys plinking at a target in their backyard is your day's biggest issue. If you are living with someone who is nuts you need to get out. Why would anyone blame domestic abuse on a piece of iron.

[Ted Bear]

One small step for man. One giant leap for mankind.


It will take decades to rid our country of this scourge, but it will happen. There simply is no place for guns in a modern society (oh, except to defend yourself against an iguana!).