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Im sorry you feel this way and seeing as you feel so strong about this, then i would encourage you to rent long term. I didnt post on this thread to tell you that you have to buy now. I was merely pointing out to you the realities of the situation. I said i feel the market would rebound in 6-12 months. That doesnt mean prices will be at record highs then. It means that it will begin to rise steadily in that time frame. If you dont believe me i would encourage you to look at the statistics provided by the association of realtors which shows that property sales are beginging to rise. Of course not like the high sales levels of several years ago, but rise none the less. This is attributed to a number of factors.
You may think the reasoning I use for rents increasing laughable, but its not based on hearsay but common sense and fact. Investors who turned to renting out properties because they cant sell them for more than they bought them for. Its as simple as that. And because so many people have done that the market is flooded with rental properties. Supply and demand dictates that you have to be competetive so you will have to lower your prices. Im sure your landlord has offered you a renewal at a lower rate. Common sense dictates that they would rather have their property rented out and having part of their debt paid for than left vacant and receiving nothing. But what do you suppose will happen in a years time when the market has picked up or even at a stretch 2 yrs. Why would your landlord rent at a lower rate when they know they can increase it and get the new rate.
Im sorry you feel this way and it is not my intention to try to change your mind because we are each entitled to our own opinion, and your decisions may suit your circumstances and lifestyle. I dont know you so i cant say either way. What i do know is that alot of buyers are out there waiting for the market to hit rock bottom so that they can start buying, and in waiting the liklihood is that they will miss it. I know this because i deal with them everyday. Everybody wants a deal, and why the heck shouldnt they.
Residential resales are all the same. Just because a subdivision is deed restricted 55+ doesnt make any different to non rstricted resales.
Im sorry you feel or have received bad advice from agents in the past and i do sincerely wish you the best in whichever avenue you decide to persue.
Nick
You're sorry I "feel" what way? You "feel" that the market will be rebounding? What is this, Oprah Winfrey meets Donald Trump?
As I pointed out when I started this thread, I want facts, not feelings. You have offered no evidence to refute anything I've posted, just the usual vacuities.
Oh, wait, you did mention "statistics provided by the association of realtors which shows that property sales are beginning to rise." Those statistics are fascinating, I'm sure. But not nearly so useful as the information I can gather just by watching the market in my own area neighborhood, which is the only one I'm likely to buy in. And sales around here are "rising" like the Titanic.
Instead of stereotyping an entire industry group, I would like to suggest for your consideration that there are approximately a million of us (Realtors) in the US; we all live somewhere too; and many are in the same boat you describe.
P.S. I did not read another post past the original.
Exiting thread now...
A million realtors? So how come they all use the same lines? "Now's the time to buy . . . prices can't go much lower . . . hurry or you'll miss out." Wow, maybe cloning has progressed further than I thought.
A million realtors? So how come they all use the same lines? "Now's the time to buy . . . prices can't go much lower . . . hurry or you'll miss out." Wow, maybe cloning has progressed further than I thought.
I have to agree. As the National Association of Realtors has been putting out misinformation for years, you don't see any splinter groups of realtors blasting them and telling the truth. As long as the monopoly continues, and numbers consumers rely on such as days on market and actual sale prices are manipulated, the industry deserves its bad reputation.
My goodness, we are a cynical bunch arnt we. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to do the math and you dont even have to take the associations figures. You can easily look up how many many properties were listed this month, how many were sold and compare it to figures from previous months.
It seems you find my tone offensive. Im sorry i wasnt rude and talked down to you. Im guessing that is what you were expecting, but i do find offensive that you are stereo typing all realtors just because of a bad bunch. YES, we know there are some bad apples out there, just as there are in every business. I guess if you had a bad experience with a doctor or a lawyer you would slam them all right.
This is going to be the last post i leave on this thread because i just dont see this conversation as being productive. You put a thread out there for everyone online to see in an open forum then slam peoples comments. Seeing as you know it all why bother posting. Maybe there is something deep in you mind that is unsure and requires you hear other peoples thoughts. Now if i had spouted that nonsense in a previous reply i would understand you calling me Oprah, but really come on.
There are always people who do not listen to anyone slam other peoples ideas if they do not conform to their own instead of being polite and saying i respectfuly disagree. we are all entitled to our own opinions. Mine is based on common sense and fact, yours on the other hand is based on a loathing and hatred for everyone in the profession which has tinted your perspective in my humble opinion. This is obvious because after mocking my comment on rental rates when i qualified my comments you didnt remark about it again.
I will simply wish you the best for the future and leave it at that.
My goodness, we are a cynical bunch arnt we. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to do the math and you dont even have to take the associations figures. You can easily look up how many many properties were listed this month, how many were sold and compare it to figures from previous months.
It seems you find my tone offensive. Im sorry i wasnt rude and talked down to you. Im guessing that is what you were expecting, but i do find offensive that you are stereo typing all realtors just because of a bad bunch. YES, we know there are some bad apples out there, just as there are in every business. I guess if you had a bad experience with a doctor or a lawyer you would slam them all right.
This is going to be the last post i leave on this thread because i just dont see this conversation as being productive. You put a thread out there for everyone online to see in an open forum then slam peoples comments. Seeing as you know it all why bother posting. Maybe there is something deep in you mind that is unsure and requires you hear other peoples thoughts. Now if i had spouted that nonsense in a previous reply i would understand you calling me Oprah, but really come on.
There are always people who do not listen to anyone slam other peoples ideas if they do not conform to their own instead of being polite and saying i respectfuly disagree. we are all entitled to our own opinions. Mine is based on common sense and fact, yours on the other hand is based on a loathing and hatred for everyone in the profession which has tinted your perspective in my humble opinion. This is obvious because after mocking my comment on rental rates when i qualified my comments you didnt remark about it again.
I will simply wish you the best for the future and leave it at that.
I find it just too hilarious to read posts like this. When people start speculating about what's "deep in my mind," it's an obvious sign that they have no facts on their side, and desperately need to change the subject away from the topic at hand.
So I should look up how many properties were listed and how many sold? Oh, I do that all the time for the only market I'm really interested in (my own). And here's what I see: Listings going on far faster than they're coming off, and prices trending steadily downward. There's really no mystery.
And my "stereotyping" of realtors? Well, the profession truly makes it easy for me, I must say. Every real estate agent I've ever encountered, anywhere I've ever lived, in every type of market, has told me the same thing: "Now's the time to buy!" They stereotype themselves -- no effort required on my part.
I think, for anyone, it really matters where you are in life. My wife and I are in our early 60s now so our perspective is different then it was when we were young. However, I like to think I still remember what it was like.
Can you rent the same or similar home cheaper than you can buy it right now? Yes you can.
Is that the best long term decision? Well, that depends on your situation, and there are many scenarios.
All we can do is draw on our life's experience, and get advice from others that might have more experience. And while people may have differing opinions, usually there is some truth to both sides.
I know how the rent vs buy calculators work, but IMO the calculators don't have a human nature factor in them. It is easy to say, "You can rent cheaper than you can buy, so rent and invest the difference." The problem is, investing the difference. Sadly, most people are not disciplined enough. Instead of investing they buy a nicer car, eat out constantly, etc. So the good plans go to waste.
I still honestly believe that young people should by a home. I think that because most of them fail to save they come out ahead if they buy. Again, this requires a certain amount of dicsipline. You do really have to be in it for the long haul. Maybe not your first home but around the age of 35 you should be looking to settle in one place and pay it off. For example, let's say you bought a $175,000 home today. You put down $15,000, your PI would be roughly $1000 over 25 years. Right now T&I are what ~$250. PI should remain the same TI will increase over time so you'll pay around $400,000 over time. In the end, the home should be worth more than double what you paid for it. For this example, let's say it's worth $400,000 just to make the numbers nice a pretty. So in the end, you didn't make a penny on THAT money. However, becaused your rent was in a manner of speaking "fixed" for 25 years, while hopefully your income was increasing and your kids moved out, so your quality of life and your ability to invest also increased. But even if you didn't invest, you still have a $400,000 asset that you can sell. At least that is what we did. (We also invested)
Fleurdelis, sounds like we're in a similar spot as you. We could pay cash for a house if we wanted to, but why?
We sold our house and property up north, 2 years ago, for $400,000(after fees). We rent a villa in a 55+ community in Bradenton, it is a short bicycle ride from the beach. Our $400,000 generates $1650 per month and our rent is $900. We basically put $350 a month back (for emergency or future rent increase) and keep $400 as income. So our old home generates our new home and some income.
Well that is our story, and it worked for us.
Last edited by wheresthereef; 02-16-2008 at 02:50 PM..
I think, for anyone, it really matters where you are in life. My wife and I are in our early 60s now so our perspective is different then it was when we were young. However, I like to think I still remember what it was like.
Can you rent the same or similar home cheaper than you can buy it right now? Yes you can.
Is that the best long term decision? Well, that depends on your situation, and there are many scenarios.
All we can do is draw on our life's experience, and get advice from others that might have more experience. And while people may have differing opinions, usually there is some truth to both sides.
I know how the rent vs buy calculators work, but IMO the calculators don't have a human nature factor in them. It is easy to say, "You can rent cheaper than you can buy, so rent and invest the difference." The problem is, investing the difference. Sadly, most people are not disciplined enough. Instead of investing they buy a nicer car, eat out constantly, etc. So the good plans go to waste.
I still honestly believe that young people should by a home. I think that because most of them fail to save they come out ahead if they buy. Again, this requires a certain amount of dicsipline. You do really have to be in it for the long haul. Maybe not your first home but around the age of 35 you should be looking to settle in one place and pay it off. For example, let's say you bought a $175,000 home today. You put down $15,000, your PI would be roughly $1000 over 25 years. Right now T&I are what ~$250. PI should remain the same TI will increase over time so you'll pay around $400,000 over time. In the end, the home should be worth more than double what you paid for it. For this example, let's say it's worth $400,000 just to make the numbers nice a pretty. So in the end, you didn't make a penny on THAT money. However, becaused your rent was in a manner of speaking "fixed" for 25 years, while hopefully your income was increasing and your kids moved out, so your quality of life and your ability to invest also increased. But even if you didn't invest, you still have a $400,000 asset that you can sell. At least that is what we did. (We also invested)
Flourdelis, sounds like we're in a similar spot as you. We could pay cash for a house if we wanted to, but why?
We sold our house and property up north, 2 years ago, for $400,000(after fees). We rent a villa in a 55+ community in Bradenton, it is a short bicycle ride from the beach. Our $400,000 generates $1650 per month and our rent is $900. We basically put $350 a month back (for emergency or future rent increase) and keep $400 as income. So our old home generates our new home and some income.
I think, for anyone, it really matters where you are in life. My wife and I are in our early 60s now so our perspective is different then it was when we were young. However, I like to think I still remember what it was like.
Can you rent the same or similar home cheaper than you can buy it right now? Yes you can.
Is that the best long term decision? Well, that depends on your situation, and there are many scenarios.
All we can do is draw on our life's experience, and get advice from others that might have more experience. And while people may have differing opinions, usually there is some truth to both sides.
I know how the rent vs buy calculators work, but IMO the calculators don't have a human nature factor in them. It is easy to say, "You can rent cheaper than you can buy, so rent and invest the difference." The problem is, investing the difference. Sadly, most people are not disciplined enough. Instead of investing they buy a nicer car, eat out constantly, etc. So the good plans go to waste.
I still honestly believe that young people should by a home. I think that because most of them fail to save they come out ahead if they buy. Again, this requires a certain amount of dicsipline. You do really have to be in it for the long haul. Maybe not your first home but around the age of 35 you should be looking to settle in one place and pay it off. For example, let's say you bought a $175,000 home today. You put down $15,000, your PI would be roughly $1000 over 25 years. Right now T&I are what ~$250. PI should remain the same TI will increase over time so you'll pay around $400,000 over time. In the end, the home should be worth more than double what you paid for it. For this example, let's say it's worth $400,000 just to make the numbers nice a pretty. So in the end, you didn't make a penny on THAT money. However, becaused your rent was in a manner of speaking "fixed" for 25 years, while hopefully your income was increasing and your kids moved out, so your quality of life and your ability to invest also increased. But even if you didn't invest, you still have a $400,000 asset that you can sell. At least that is what we did. (We also invested)
Flourdelis, sounds like we're in a similar spot as you. We could pay cash for a house if we wanted to, but why?
We sold our house and property up north, 2 years ago, for $400,000(after fees). We rent a villa in a 55+ community in Bradenton, it is a short bicycle ride from the beach. Our $400,000 generates $1650 per month and our rent is $900. We basically put $350 a month back (for emergency or future rent increase) and keep $400 as income. So our old home generates our new home and some income.
Well that is our story, and it worked for us.
Excellent post, thanks. You make some good points.
The only thing I would note is this: I'm not sure younger people these days have the option to settle down as easily as they did years ago. Jobs seem to be a lot more precarious and, in many cases, people have to be ready to move frequently. That makes buying a house a lot dicier proposition for them.
You're also right about needing the discipline to save and invest. Fortunately, my husband and I have always been diligent savers, and have done well on our investments.
For people who are not that disciplined, owning a house can sometimes be a form of forced savings. These days, however, many people seem to treat their houses like big debit cards -- they keep refinancing and taking money out, so they never build up any equity. They often end up worse off than if they had rented.
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