[Floridamex]

Rates are down ,sales are down, and the price is down , But I keep hearing its the press and the blogers. Prices have dropped not because of some blogger 'incited' panic, but rather because in the bubble markets prices have become divorced from the fundamentals (price to rent ratio, income etc). It is flattering to think us housing bubble bloggers and the press have that much power. I just find it funny that the blame is everything but the truth. Greed will get you every time.

[tallrick]

It has a long way to go! Prices have reached unsustainable levels. Unless we get more stupid foreign investors prices have nowhere to go but down. All the positive thinking, press and statue burying isn't going to help the fundamentals. If you buy a home and pay more than 3x your family's annual income you're in big trouble! You and I seem to know this, why can't everyone else figure it out?

[Ladywithafan]

I would call it reality...

[bale002]

Originally Posted by tallrick

If you buy a home and pay more than 3x your family's annual income you're in big trouble! You and I seem to know this, why can't everyone else figure it out?

Maybe because of mediocre education combined with watching too much television and too much exposure to mass media in general, a formula for mass stupidity.

What do you think is the fate of the middle class?

Against the backdrop of an all-pervading consumerist materialism ideology since a little more over a century in the US and Europe, and by now perversely exaggerated, in the past two decades or so the ruling classes have easily led the people into believing in, not only blindly consuming above their means, but also the "ownership society" mania which in reality, however, for many people, is a euphemism for a form of debt slavery.

Periodically history comes full circle, but over periods of centuries, and the United States is no exception. The problem is that the span of consciousness of most people is a few days, maybe a few weeks at best, whether reviewing the past or planning for the future.

[j in florida]

People began to start coming to their senses.

The market was artificially and rediculously overinflated. It will bottom out, eventually, then hopefully get back to a normal that we haven't seen in several years.

This was the third such cycle I've seen in the past 25 years, but certainly the most profound in terms of numbers and duration.

If those investment club kool-aid drinkers, Carlton Sheets wannabees and "Flip this House" groupies would have stayed out of it, it would not have been near as severe.

[hiknapster]

I agree with all of you.

We were in Fort Myers in September of '05, didn't own, look around at prices and said "Oh, heck no!"

We just couldn't figure out why people would pay the CRAZY prices for a location that was prone to hurricanes, low wages and high crime. That does not take a rocket scientist.

[firemed]

But its Florida the home of mickey mouse, sunshine, Beaches, and babes.
But you soon find out Orlando is the home of a Big Rat, sunshine causes cancer, Beaches are full of dead fish, And the babes turn out to be a fat guy from Europe in a speedo's in need of a wax. Oh what fun !!!

[hiknapster]

Or the babe is a 40-year-old crackhead!

[Christian11]

Originally Posted by tallrick

It has a long way to go! Prices have reached unsustainable levels. Unless we get more stupid foreign investors prices have nowhere to go but down. All the positive thinking, press and statue burying isn't going to help the fundamentals. If you buy a home and pay more than 3x your family's annual income you're in big trouble! You and I seem to know this, why can't everyone else figure it out?

I am with TallRick on this. Even with the price drops, prices have got soooo high, it is still absurd. It needs to drop fundamentally more before it becomes affordable again. Chances of that happening are currently remote.

But in all honesty, I don't give a crap. I am moving out of FL in March 2007. Man, it feels sooooo good just THINKING about it.

We talk about moving everyday when we get home from work. Wife loves her job, but we can't stay renting forever and buying something that would cost more than 3 times the annual income is stupid. Therefore, we need to move and get something we can afford.

For those who missed it, FL has 2 cities with most foreclosures in USA. I wonder why. (http://promo.realestate.yahoo.com/)

Chris

[Christian11]

Originally Posted by bale002

Maybe because of mediocre education combined with watching too much television and too much exposure to mass media in general, a formula for mass stupidity.

What do you think is the fate of the middle class?

Against the backdrop of an all-pervading consumerist materialism ideology since a little more over a century in the US and Europe, and by now perversely exaggerated, in the past two decades or so the ruling classes have easily led the people into believing in, not only blindly consuming above their means, but also the "ownership society" mania which in reality, however, for many people, is a euphemism for a form of debt slavery.

Periodically history comes full circle, but over periods of centuries, and the United States is no exception. The problem is that the span of consciousness of most people is a few days, maybe a few weeks at best, whether reviewing the past or planning for the future.

The United States is facing 3 major battles/wars right now.

1. The financial battle. We buy more than we can afford and build huge credit card bills or we buy more housing than we can afford and then we are stuck paying more than we can and forcing us to go for the credit cards.

The US also imports $1 Trillion Dollars more per year then we export. I am no math genius, but if we import more than we export, then foreign entities must hold our bills for what we buy and cannot pay for. Has anyone noticed how the US Dollar keeps going down in value internationally?

2. The Cultural war. It is real. The identity of the nation is at stake here. We have an illegal immigrant lower class that has not and does want to assimilate. As a legal immigrant from Argentina, I am fully adjusted to the US culture and language. I wanted to be that way. I love America more than any other country in the world and I get sooo pissed when people disrespect the American flag. It angers me.

The culture war is also an issue of whether America will continue to be a family-oriented culture, where there is an emphasis on the family unit or we will be a "hey what the hell" culture, where no one cares about anything but themselves. That is what is happening to Europe and look at the mess they have there. Did anyone see the mad riots in France by the "what the hell" crowd?

3. The middle-class battle for survival. This is a serious one. The middle-class in America originally appeared after WWII in 1945. The key issue here is that people were needed to do jobs. Because there were more jobs than people, companies had to dispute for the good workers by offering better benefits and better pay then the competition. Now, they have learned the trick. As long as corporations control Congress and can ensure illegal and legal aliens flood the US job market, there is a surplus of people. This is a simple comcept called "supply and demand". The surplus of people demanding jobs causes companies to offer crappy wages and no benefits. I have worked 3 full time jobs with large law firms... how many offer health insurance? NONE. * Folks, please post here who has health insurance paid for their employer these days. I bet a lot of poeple will be uninsured.

Nowadays, we basically don't need about 25% of the US population. We have a lot of people who cannot get a job, who cannot compete with illegal alien workers who earn close to nothing. Corporate America is all going overseas for manufacturing, while we are internally outsourcing our jobs to illegal aliens and to "temporary foreign workers" who never leave.

I think Americans need to step up to the plate and demand the 20 - 30 million illegals (this is according to AILA, the American Immigration Lawyers Association stats) go back to where they are from, so US workers can go back and earn "livable wages" like they did back in the 1940s and 1950. We will get people off of welfare and into the workforce. I know most Americans long for the days when American workers, specially the college educated ones could earn a good, decent salary and provide for their families.

Comments welcome (including the hate ones I know will come too). I am latino from Argentina, so claims that I am a racist will not work. I love America, so hate on me away!

Chris