[bmw335xi]

Originally Posted by Cliff Hardy

That they can get weapons is the root of the problem.

Thankfully I live in a country where we make it difficult for people who shouldn't have guns to get them and the results of that speak for themselves.

If Australia had tens of millions of guns already in circulation it would be a different story. I used to live in Australia btw nice place.

Also, if an illegal alien stole a gun in Australia and shot it in Sydney Harbor and ended up killing a person... what kind of sentence would they give him? In San Francisco, they found him innocent by the liberals there, so criminals don't fear punishment, which is why I own two guns.

[Cliff Hardy]

Originally Posted by kmarc

Fellow I know wanted to emigrate to Australia from the US. He has a LOT of money. However, he also has an autistic son. On the basis of that, Aus wouldn't accept him. Afraid if he lost his money the kid would become a charge on the state. I must commend Aus for that.

What that has to do with guns only you would know.

[Cliff Hardy]

Originally Posted by bmw335xi

If Australia had tens of millions of guns already in circulation it would be a different story. I used to live in Australia btw nice place.

Also, if an illegal alien stole a gun in Australia and shot it in Sydney Harbor and ended up killing a person... what kind of sentence would they give him? In San Francisco, they found him innocent by the liberals there, so criminals don't fear punishment, which is why I own two guns.

Australia had far too many guns. Nothing like the preposterous average per person the USA has, but far too many none the less.

That all changed as a result of a single and significant event and the reduction of guns as a result of that event slashed the death by guns figures in half.

[bmw335xi]

Originally Posted by Cliff Hardy

Australia had far too many guns. Nothing like the preposterous average per person the USA has, but far too many none the less.

That all changed as a result of a single and significant event and the reduction of guns as a result of that event slashed the death by guns figures in half.

You didn't answer my question though regarding what would happen to someone in Australia now if they stole a gun and shot it in the heart of Sydney, resulting in the "accidental" death of someone?

I'd have no problem with bans on assault rifles, high magazines among other things as well, IF, I knew anyone bold enough to use a gun in a crime or simply bold enough to steal a gun would be severely punished. This recent event proved my fears that there is not enough deterrent nor penalty, so I want that extra insurance policy.

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by Cliff Hardy

I've never heard of a person shooting another person without a gun.

But they have stabbed and beat people, including killing them and ... no gun.

It isn't an option to lock up everyone anyone thinks could be potentially violent or disturbed. What has to happen is it become more difficult to arm themselves.

I agree

As things stand violent and mentally disturbed people can buy guns whenever they want and they do, and they go on shooting rampages.

Yes keep them from getting guns, at least legally. You can't stop anyone from getting them illegally.

Notice your real problem is the type of people getting guns, not the guns themselves. I would be happy to see much stricter gun laws and ... I only own an old BB gun, so no supporter of guns, but recognize the problem is ... people.

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by kmarc

The problem is violent, deranged people. From top to bottom of the class structure.

Yes.

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by Cliff Hardy

Australia had far too many guns. Nothing like the preposterous average per person the USA has, but far too many none the less.

That all changed as a result of a single and significant event and the reduction of guns as a result of that event slashed the death by guns figures in half.

Still people getting killed with guns in Australia, so still a people issue.

Decent people obey the law no matter how strict or free.

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by bmw335xi

You didn't answer my question though regarding what would happen to someone in Australia now if they stole a gun and shot it in the heart of Sydney, resulting in the "accidental" death of someone?

I'd have no problem with bans on assault rifles, high magazines among other things as well, IF, I knew anyone bold enough to use a gun in a crime or simply bold enough to steal a gun would be severely punished. This recent event proved my fears that there is not enough deterrent nor penalty, so I want that extra insurance policy.

The punishment today does not discourage it.

I was reading a history of Rome in the republic era and in Ostia, the main port for Rome, they had terrible problems with thieves. They ended it by passing a law. You get caught stealing they cut your right hand off, you get caught again they cut your head off. Other than organized crime at the merchant level stealing ended real quickly.

The punishment must be so sever it makes people quit. Unfortunately it isn't.

[Cliff Hardy]

Originally Posted by expatCA

But they have stabbed and beat people, including killing them and ... no gun.

I can't think of too many mass slaughters involving knives.

If some nutter was trying to do damage at the school my children were attending I'd much rather he had a knife than a gun.

[Cliff Hardy]

Originally Posted by expatCA

Still people getting killed with guns in Australia, so still a people issue.

Decent people obey the law no matter how strict or free.

When a single act reduces the deaths by shooting in a country over a 10 year period by half it is worthwhile.