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Old 12-27-2018, 11:15 AM
 
24,324 posts, read 26,708,197 times
Reputation: 19745

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrviking View Post
Woke up to another beautiful day in Florida. Sun is shining, water looks beautiful and temp is perfect. These silly humans think they can control mother earth. No matter what they throw at her, she still goes on and on. She will still be standing once they are all gone. She has been around billions and billions of years and these insignificant humans are just a blimp on the time line she lives. Enjoy the time you get to walk and live on her.

Pretty much lol

 
Old 12-27-2018, 04:09 PM
 
2,752 posts, read 2,555,936 times
Reputation: 4040
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
Man-made climate change science denier mentality.

Scientist are hired guns now. When your livelihood is dependent on money from people, organizations, gov and corporations the last thing you want is to jeopardize that funding. Once politics infected that funding it all becomes tainted.
 
Old 12-27-2018, 06:13 PM
 
20,956 posts, read 8,571,701 times
Reputation: 14048
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry10 View Post
In France (or even Switzerland) I see too many places that don’t recycle, too much air pollution, from fumes and dust.

You would think that we are much worse, but I find myself too often noticing in France that we actually protect the man-made or natural environment better than they do.
Perception and reality are two different things. The size and topography of the States can make things look better than they are...in certain places.

The truest tale is told by Energy use....given a modern economy. If you use and waste more "stuff", you use and waste more energy.

Energy use > Kg of oil equivalent per capita

France
3,831.33
Ranked 16th.

USA
6,793.09
Ranked 4th. 77% more than France

Basically, they are maintaining the same or higher quality of life (life span, happiness, low infant mortality, etc.) than we are at 1/2 the cost (energy-wise, which translates everywhere else also)....

Europe has been developed down the square foot for many many centuries - even thousands of years. So it's different. The USA is still working somewhat off of "fresh" resources, but we use too many of them.
 
Old 12-27-2018, 07:01 PM
 
18,208 posts, read 8,027,666 times
Reputation: 13474
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
Perception and reality are two different things. The size and topography of the States can make things look better than they are...in certain places.

The truest tale is told by Energy use....given a modern economy. If you use and waste more "stuff", you use and waste more energy.

Energy use > Kg of oil equivalent per capita

France
3,831.33
Ranked 16th.

USA
6,793.09
Ranked 4th. 77% more than France

Basically, they are maintaining the same or higher quality of life (life span, happiness, low infant mortality, etc.) than we are at 1/2 the cost (energy-wise, which translates everywhere else also)....

Europe has been developed down the square foot for many many centuries - even thousands of years. So it's different. The USA is still working somewhat off of "fresh" resources, but we use too many of them.
Craig, that's energy oil equivalent...energy from oil....not energy from all sources....just oil

France doesn't use that much oil for energy....they get 75% of their electricity from nuclear
France has ~60 nuclear plants

...so that's comparing oranges and bricks
 
Old 12-28-2018, 03:41 PM
 
5,687 posts, read 7,113,793 times
Reputation: 4326
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post

Basically, they are maintaining the same or higher quality of life (life span, happiness, low infant mortality, etc.) than we are at 1/2 the cost (energy-wise, which translates everywhere else also)....
Yeah, that's why the yellow vests are protesting.
 
Old 12-29-2018, 06:40 AM
 
Location: Ubique
4,316 posts, read 4,167,551 times
Reputation: 2822
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
Basically, they are maintaining the same or higher quality of life (life span, happiness, low infant mortality, etc.) than we are at 1/2 the cost (energy-wise, which translates everywhere else also)....
Yep, I would be pretty happy too if someone picked up the tab for my national defense. That is the same person who also pays for Florida environmental improvements, i.e. me and you.
 
Old 12-30-2018, 08:30 PM
 
20,956 posts, read 8,571,701 times
Reputation: 14048
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrie22 View Post
Craig, that's energy oil equivalent...energy from oil....not energy from all sources....just oil

France doesn't use that much oil for energy....they get 75% of their electricity from nuclear
France has ~60 nuclear plants

...so that's comparing oranges and bricks
I don't think so...note the figures say "energy equiv".....it's a fact that even US States like MA. use 1/2 or less the Energy of many others...and MA. and RI and a few others are the only ones that approach Europe (that generally uses 1/2 or less per capital as we do)....

Those figures count energy - which could be in calories, BTU, joules or oil equiv.

All the same thing.
 
Old 12-30-2018, 08:36 PM
 
20,956 posts, read 8,571,701 times
Reputation: 14048
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry10 View Post
Yep, I would be pretty happy too if someone picked up the tab for my national defense. That is the same person who also pays for Florida environmental improvements, i.e. me and you.
You mean France with nukes and aircraft carriers and their own fighter jets and Airbus and all that stuff - that we are defending them and paying?

I don't think so. Put away the talking points. I thought we were talking about Florida and the environment here.

BTW, just took a nice ride up 75 from Sarasota to Gaineville. A parking lot the entire way up. No other way to get there. Unbridled development everywhere.....and there is no way the roads can start to keep up. They don't even start to make the improvements until after they are already needed and then they take years.....

I guess only those who have been to this area previously (more than 15 years ago) know that this was not always the case.

This is just one more indication of the lack of proper planning. The state is set up perfectly for high speed rail and even regular speed rail.....but, no, instead it is lots of old people and buzzed people and others in cars and trucks in traffic (polluting more...and become more and more frustrated)....

That's not quality of life. Every single day we have major crashes on the Interstate near here. Fatalities.

It's not right. I hope the future residents elect government that will understand how to count ( 21 million people and counting on relatively small dry land mass)....and plan.

As of now it's anything goes.
 
Old 12-31-2018, 07:25 AM
 
Location: Ubique
4,316 posts, read 4,167,551 times
Reputation: 2822
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
You mean France with nukes and aircraft carriers and their own fighter jets and Airbus and all that stuff - that we are defending them and paying?

I don't think so. Put away the talking points. I thought we were talking about Florida and the environment here.
Actually Europe's defense and environment are extremely related. Not sure how you don't understand this; only if you still believed that money grows on trees.

Let me break it down for you -- the last 75 years are the only time in Western Europe's entire 4000 year history that Western Europe never had an annihilating war. Europe's only defense strategy is NATO, which we, the American Taxpayer, pay for 75% of its readiness. Btw, NATO provides little or no defense to our shores.

If for these 75 years we had diverted our money into other things, like Europe did, our environment would be better.

One day we will either not be able to, or "pull out" of Europe's defense. I want to see these ouhlala countries stand on their own two feet, now build their militaries, keep peace (which they have never been able to do on their own), and then we will see how they can pay for their freebies and "environment".

Just to give you an idea on France's military -- they have about 200k forces. Turkey has 700k. Russia over a million. France's military is a joke, because they don't need to, since Uncle Sam guarantees France's defense. Who funds Uncle Sam? You and me do. So instead of buying more parkland, preserves, burying sewers, high speed trains, etc. etc. -- we pay so that France can do these instead of us.
 
Old 12-31-2018, 03:49 PM
 
20,956 posts, read 8,571,701 times
Reputation: 14048
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry10 View Post
Actually Europe's defense and environment are extremely related. Not sure how you don't understand this; only if you still believed that money grows on trees.

France's military is a joke, because they don't need to, since Uncle Sam guarantees France's defense. Who funds Uncle Sam? You and me do. So instead of buying more parkland, preserves, burying sewers, high speed trains, etc. etc. -- we pay so that France can do these instead of us.
Who needs millions of troops when you can push a button? France has nukes and delivery methods. That effectively protects them. In addition, they are aligned with the Brits...who also have nukes. And they are aligned with the Germans who could have them in about two weeks.....

Believe me, the 1.5 Trillion we spend on the Security State has little to do with protecting France. Good Excuse tho, but the numbers just don't pan out.

When you have nukes no other country will dare touch you. Ukraine is likely very sorry that they gave up their nukes ......

Anyway, this is unrelated to Florida and our lack of planning. It's fantastic to say that we aren't investing in infrastructure because of France. Not true....not even a little bit.

We are not investing because we don't do enough long term planning. It's not as profitable as just building and building and letting others eventually deal with the mess.
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