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Old 11-27-2018, 04:26 PM
 
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Dates are meant to be changed kate.
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Old 11-28-2018, 05:22 AM
 
7,906 posts, read 4,827,045 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
[b]
What makes you think he knows more than the UN scientists and is not influenced by political or personal ideology?
Wanless, unlike Donald Trump, Rick Scott, Marco Rubio, Ron DeSantis, and the legion of like-minded science deniers, is a very reputable and credentialed scientist whose life work has centered on studying sea level rise. He is the chair of the geological sciences department at the Univ. of Miami, whose very existence is threatened by sea level rise. Do you think the Univ. of Miami would tolerate suspect science on this issue?

http://climate.miami.edu/

Based on the empirical evidence, Wanless, as repeatedly documented, makes the testable statement that the RATE of sea level rise is doubling every 7-8 years globally. He attributes this to accelerating ice melt which has been confirmed by other scientists who study ice melt, whether in Greenland or Antarctica. Thermal expansion and gravity factors result in the rate of sea level rise being even higher in southern Florida, as Wanless explains.

Read this article carefully. Wanless notes that if rate of sea level rise continues to double every 7-8 years, the extrapolation would be 200 feet of sea level rise by 2100. So Wanless, like most reputable scientists, actually is greatly pulling his punch when he forecasts only 10-33 feet of sea level rise in southern Florida by 2100.

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...elizabeth-rush

When a reputable scientist makes an observation of an empirical reality that, if accurate, has massively dire consequences, why isn't this theory examined closely by both the scientific community and government officials? Here's the rub for me -- I can't find any scientist saying that Wanless' concerns are exaggerated. The U.N. climate panel warns that its projections have proven too conservative and there are possible outcomes much worse than it has forecast.

Why should we tolerate, given the urgent warnings of a reputable scientist observing and analyzing the empirical data, the foolishness of man-made climate change science deniers, whether the "Denier-in-Chief" or his know-nothing followers??? These deniers, as is evident repeatedly in Florida forum threads, aren't interested in the scientific method. As with centuries of ideologues that have preceded them, such as the persecutors of Galileo because he observed that the universe doesn't rotate around earth, deniers are close-minded individuals, often motivated by egomania, pursuit of power under the current status quo, and/or greed.

Additionally, other empirical evidence and scientific research suggests that Wanless is correct in his fears about accelerating ice melt.

And remember, that Wanless is using the back door approach to analyzing the rate of ice melt. Wanless' research isolates the impact of thermal expansion and gravitational factors, which actually result in a faster rate of acceleration of sea level rise in southern Florida than globally, and he says, HOLY ****, the global rate of acceleration of sea level rise is doubling every 7-8 years and even faster in southern Florida.

So Wanless says that Florida should expect about 3 feet of sea level rise by 2046. Is he being conservative? I don't know, but when I read articles such as the following one, and compare it with the dangerous drivel of deniers, I personally will take Wanless very seriously.

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/opinion...620-story.html

See posts 1 (especially regarding the threat of a vicious methane cycle) and 11 in this thread.

Key numbers for Sarasota-Bradenton-Venice region -- 3, 6, 10, 16

Why would anyone comparatively respect the conclusions of the Denier-in-Chief when he clearly states that his great intelligence (NOT) and "natural instinct for science" allows him to ignore confidently the conclusions of scientists such as Wanless based on EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE?

Trump's 'natural instinct for science' is not serving him (or us) well | MSNBC

Other evidence clearly supports Wanless, not the deniers.

For example, Glacier National Park is forecast to be glacier-free by 2030. I've been conscious of the disappearing glaciers at Glacier National Park for decades. Are you unaware of this? How is it possible that the President of the United States is unaware of this?

Glacier National Park Could Be Glacier-Free by 2030 | Time

Scientists know that the rate of ice melt in Antarctica has more than doubled, clearly supporting Wanless' backdoor observations.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...last-25-years/

Unlike deniers, I don't shut out such empirical research. I don't attempt to gut the funding for the empirical research. I don't belittle scientists. I don't pretend to be a socially minded environmental conservative, which IMO is an impossibility if you politically support deniers who promote increased fossil fuel consumption such as Donald Trump, Scott, Rubio and DeSantis.

When a serious threat exists, why shouldn't we expect our leaders to be "alarmists?"

My hope, once Democrats take control of the House of Representatives, is that the reconstituted House climate change committee will make it a priority to delve into Wanless' research and conclusions. Clearly Congressional and other deniers fear this possibility, as evidenced by their neglect of climate change while they've controlled Congress. The scientific method is the Achilles' heel of deniers, and I hope the new House committee slashes it.

Deniers deliberately suppress the reality that man-made climate change is an existential issue for humanity, and most definitely for Florida.

For Floridians and Americans who actually seek to preserve the environmental wonders of the "Sunshine State," and who are NOT merely greeder deniers more than willing to enjoy the present and make a timely exit as the ravages become too unbearable, the House committee on climate change may be the most immediate hope "for a tomorrow."

https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/...219770350.html

Last edited by WRnative; 11-28-2018 at 05:50 AM..
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Old 11-28-2018, 06:13 AM
 
2,328 posts, read 842,644 times
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22 dead in blast outside northern China chemical plant | Boston Herald

News Flash! see link above. WR says fossil fuels are causing Florida to sink into the sea. Well, WR's home state of Ohio is currently building 2 MASSIVE Ethane Cracker plants which are huge polluters and will cause Florida to sink even faster...if he's right.

Ethane Crackers create a product that is 80X more toxic to our environment than regular natural gas, and its highly explosive. This is not the first Ethane explosion to occur, and there will be more deaths and destruction to come.

The link above is today's news about a truck transporting ethane exploding in China killing 22, and of course the explosion burned all the ethane causing great harm to the atmophere.

WRnative should be focusing upon stopping the construction of these 2 MASSIVE Ethane Crackers in his home state of Ohio before they get online. If he's successful, he might save Florida from sinking even faster than he says it is now.

The Ohio EPA just held a public meeting to hear from concerned citizens, and I'm betting WR was NOT in attendence. If fact, the hall was mostly empty as you can see in this picture atop this article link...read the text too!

https://www.wtrf.com/community/ohio-...ant/1623227125

So, we have a fear-mongering, name calling, Ohioan spewing toxic vitriol on a Florida forum who is unwilling to lift a finger to do 1 thing in his home state to stop Earth's atmosphere from being destroyed. There's an address at the bottom of this link for the Ohio EPA. They are asking for input on the Ethane Crackers. Wouldn't WR's time be better spent writing a letter to them rather than writing on a Florida forum that does nothing to make a difference?

Florida's the #1 best state on the environment, while Ohio is #48 w/ only Illinois and Louisiana being worse. Want proof? Click on link below. You'll have to click on the blue buttom that says "see the complete list" and scroll all the way down to the very bottom to see Ohio down there in the caustic muck. So, what the heck is he doing here in pristine Florida when there is SO much more to be done in fossil fuel producing OHIO?

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...al-environment

WR needs to go to the source of the sinking cities (the fossil fuel producing industry, government, and voters in Ohio) rather than throwing us a life jacket here in Florida. He's preaching to the choir because Florida's already the #1 State in the U.S. on the environment. Why is he throwing rocks at our Palm Trees from his glass house in Ohio that's about to explode?
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Old 11-28-2018, 12:37 PM
 
17,432 posts, read 10,510,439 times
Reputation: 8328
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
Wanless, unlike Donald Trump, Rick Scott, Marco Rubio, Ron DeSantis, and the legion of like-minded science deniers, is a very reputable and credentialed scientist whose life work has centered on studying sea level rise. He is the chair of the geological sciences department at the Univ. of Miami, whose very existence is threatened by sea level rise. Do you think the Univ. of Miami would tolerate suspect science on this issue?

When a reputable scientist makes an observation of an empirical reality that, if accurate, has massively dire consequences, why isn't this theory examined closely by both the scientific community and government officials? Here's the rub for me -- I can't find any scientist saying that Wanless' concerns are exaggerated. The U.N. climate panel warns that its projections have proven too conservative and there are possible outcomes much worse than it has forecast.
.

https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/...219770350.html
So all the scientists in the UN study are stupid and uneducated????? Are not credentialed and reputable????



Evidence please.
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Old 11-28-2018, 02:22 PM
 
7,906 posts, read 4,827,045 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
So all the scientists in the UN study are stupid and uneducated????? Are not credentialed and reputable????



Evidence please.
Never said the U.N. climate change scientists were stupid or uneducated. Pathetic implied prevarication on your part.

I said Wanless was credentialed and reputable and most importantly that he made a frightening empirical observation that no one has refuted -- the rate of sea level rise is doubling every 7-8 years, and accelerating at an even higher rate in southern Florida. Do you deny any of these statements?

Man-made climate change science deniers obviously don't discuss empirical reality. E.g., as you so like to ask questions, please answer a few basic questions related to environmental degradation in Florida.

1) What happens to the 35 billion metric tons of carbon dioxide emissions released into the atmosphere annually from fossil fuel consumption?

2) Why isn't the continuing acidification of the oceans as major a threat to mankind as global warming? Why do deniers never discuss ocean acidification?

https://ocean.si.edu/ocean-life/inve...-acidification

3) Are you concerned by the ongoing destruction of the Great Florida Coral Reef and other global coral reefs due to ocean warming, sea level rise, and ocean acidification? Why don't deniers care about obvious environmental degradation?

I want to see Wanless' claimed observations researched and, if accurate, properly assessed to deteremine if the implications are disastrous. Ditto, ocean acidification, ocean warming, etc.

Congress and the administration under denier control have not only ignored the warnings of the world's scientists, but they've suppressed man-made climate change science. Hopefully, that will no longer be possible as of January when the Democrats reconstitute the House climate change panel.
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Old 11-28-2018, 02:37 PM
 
2,328 posts, read 842,644 times
Reputation: 1579
Okay, let's say Wanless is God-like and all-knowing. WR's state of Ohio is causing sea levels to rise because they are the 3rd worse polluting State in the U.S. soon to be 1st after the 2 MASSIVE Ethane Crackers come on line, and WR's not lifting a finger to do anything about it. Ohio has 4 oil refineries, home to Marathon Oil, 2,000+ oil and natural gas fracking wells, tire manufacturing plants, gobs of Superfund sites, and basically a HUGE CO2 fossil fuel producing and burning monster.

He failed to attend the recently held Ohio EPA open forum on them, or write a letter to the Ohio EPA even though they are asking for input.

WR IS the cause of the seas rising, and not part of the solution to slow it down. He's all talk/typing and no action. Thus, his rants are mental master#$%#n, and he's a fear mongerer with an attitide...nothing more.

WR knows Florida's #1 on US News and World Reports list of best cities on the environment, and Ohio is 48th. Yet, he's preaching save Earth to us? Total hypocrisy.
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Old 11-28-2018, 04:29 PM
 
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Nothing can be done to stop what is to come. The planet will warm up and cool off over many 1000's of years.
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Old 11-28-2018, 06:00 PM
 
17,432 posts, read 10,510,439 times
Reputation: 8328
Quote:
Originally Posted by beach43ofus View Post
Okay, let's say Wanless is God-like and all-knowing. WR's state of Ohio is causing sea levels to rise because they are the 3rd worse polluting State in the U.S. soon to be 1st after the 2 MASSIVE Ethane Crackers come on line, and WR's not lifting a finger to do anything about it. Ohio has 4 oil refineries, home to Marathon Oil, 2,000+ oil and natural gas fracking wells, tire manufacturing plants, gobs of Superfund sites, and basically a HUGE CO2 fossil fuel producing and burning monster.

He failed to attend the recently held Ohio EPA open forum on them, or write a letter to the Ohio EPA even though they are asking for input.

WR IS the cause of the seas rising, and not part of the solution to slow it down. He's all talk/typing and no action. Thus, his rants are mental master#$%#n, and he's a fear mongerer with an attitide...nothing more.

WR knows Florida's #1 on US News and World Reports list of best cities on the environment, and Ohio is 48th. Yet, he's preaching save Earth to us? Total hypocrisy.
I know. He agrees the UN scientists are educated and credentialed, but his one scientists is right and they are wrong. His position was refuted by the UN study, but he can't admit it.


Note I agree man is damaging the earth and the climate is changing in some areas and times. However guesses (So called skilled observations) about the level of impact vary wildly and no one scientist is ever going to be right when at odds with lots of equally skilled scientists..
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Old 11-28-2018, 07:09 PM
 
2,594 posts, read 764,853 times
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What kind of credited and reputable scientist says something so stupid...that anyone can easily check and see that's it's wrong...sea level is not doubling every 7-8 years....and sea level is not accelerating in South Florida..South Florida is a rock, it's not going anywhere

What kind of moron believes this crap...and doesn't even check to see that it's crap

====

NASA records global sea level ....it's still the same....around 1 inch a decade...not doubling..not accelerating

https://www.iceagenow.info/wp-conten...-2017-NASA.png

====

NOAA records sea levels for South Florida....it's still the same...around 1 inch a decade...not doubling..not accelerating


Key West has the longest record...over 100 years...exactly the same rate....around 1 inch a decade...not doubling..not accelerating

https://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sl..._meantrend.png

Palm Beach is South Florida....exactly the same rate....around 1 inch a decade...not doubling..not accelerating

https://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sl..._meantrend.png

Naples is South Florida...exactly the same rate....around 1 inch a decade...not doubling..not accelerating

https://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sl..._meantrend.png

Ft. Myers is South Florida....exactly the same rate...around 1 inch a decade...not doubling..not accelerating

https://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sl..._meantrend.png
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Old 11-28-2018, 07:47 PM
 
2,594 posts, read 764,853 times
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The normal measured range of ocean pH is 7.2 - 8.2...the average is 7.7
..the average measured global ocean pH is currently 8.1

...on the extreme high side of the average
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