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Old 11-14-2018, 12:04 PM
 
17,453 posts, read 10,525,134 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chopchop0 View Post
Are hardcore red states like MS WV and AL good for many, despite having some of the worst poverty in the country?
And one party state will be bad. It does not excuse one if another is a different rand just as bad.
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Old 11-14-2018, 12:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beach43ofus View Post
I hope we don't get any changes in Florida in the next 2-4 years that will harm our environment like they are doing in Ohio. We don't need to sell our souls chasing the almighty dollar at the expense of our environment. Ohio has 2,400 oil wells that are actively fracking for shale and natural gas. Let's be glad we dont have any known oil or natural gas beneath us here in Florida. Ohio's also exporting Natural Gas to China who is Earth's largest CO2 producer. Ohio's doubled down on fossil fuels. They are building 2 massive Ethane plants right along the Ohio River to process the natural gas they are selling to China. Why right along a river?

Whatever political changes come to Florida in the next 2-4 years, please do not let them look anything like what Ohio's doing.
We dont need to have 14 Superfund sites like they have in Ohio. Let's continue to pursue solar here in Florida and not fossil like Ohio.
Just as in Florida, Ohio's Republicans have trashed Ohio's environment in the past decade. Unlike in Florida, Ohio doesn't face an existential threat from inundation, and Ohio doesn't face intensified hurricanes due to ocean warming, the loss of a major natural asset as the Great Florida Coral Reef, or (due to much colder winters) the risk of persistent and more toxic algal blooms. See post 6 in this thread.

Lake Erie toxic algal blooms

Ohio also is far ahead of Florida in limiting nutrient pollution of its waterways, and seems likely to slash the agricultural nutrient pollution that is nourishing the Lake Erie algal blooms in coming years, whether by legislative action or legal enforcement. See post 113 in this thread.

Is it me or is Florida getting hotter every year?

Perhaps to even a lesser degree than in Florida, the media in Ohio hasn't focused sufficiently on the environmental woes inflicted on Ohio by the Republicans, especially the risks posed by the injection under high pressure of radioactive fracking waste water under Ohio's potable fresh water reserves in southeastern Ohio.

Last edited by WRnative; 11-14-2018 at 12:49 PM..
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Old 11-14-2018, 12:31 PM
 
2,329 posts, read 846,096 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chopchop0 View Post
Are hardcore red states like MS WV and AL good for many, despite having some of the worst poverty in the country?
Bad attempt at deflection....California leads the US in poverty, high taxes, air pollution, tent cities, income disparity, pension debt $1T, state debt $2.3T. Since 1992, Libs have destroyed Cali's finances and middle class. Cali has wealthy residents and poverty stricken residents w/o much in between.

Florida's political changes in the next 2-4 years should not follow California's in any way, shape, or form. In fact, doing the opposite of California would be better.
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Old 11-14-2018, 02:15 PM
 
7,906 posts, read 4,832,265 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beach43ofus View Post
Bad attempt at deflection....California leads the US in poverty, high taxes, air pollution, tent cities, income disparity, pension debt $1T, state debt $2.3T. Since 1992, Libs have destroyed Cali's finances and middle class. Cali has wealthy residents and poverty stricken residents w/o much in between.

Florida's political changes in the next 2-4 years should not follow California's in any way, shape, or form. In fact, doing the opposite of California would be better.


California does NOT lead the U.S. in poverty. In fact, its poverty range is in the same range as Florida's. This was just documented in post 33 and yet you post this gross prevarication. Why?

I count 8 states with worse poverty rates than either CA or FL in Figure 1 here:

What will political changes, if any, will occur in Florida in the next 2-4 years

What will political changes, if any, will occur in Florida in the next 2-4 years

There also are at lest 13 states by my count, with pension funds that are more unfunded than California. See figure 1 in this study.

https://www.pewtrusts.org/-/media/as...2016_final.pdf

Florida at about -5 percent has the seven worst negative pension operating cash flow ratio of any state. Operating cash flow measures potential pension funding degradation in the future. California has the 16th best operating cash flow ratio at just over -2.0 percent. See figure 8 here.

https://www.pewtrusts.org/-/media/as...2016_final.pdf

This also was discussed in post 26 of this thread, so why are you foisting another prevarication on us???

What will political changes, if any, will occur in Florida in the next 2-4 years

Please provide links and substantiation for all of your statements of fact, as obvious they aren't reliable. California critics in this thread repeatedly post claims of fact that are grossly inaccurate.
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Old 11-14-2018, 02:51 PM
 
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California is a total mess, and everyone with a brain knows it. They don't need to see any links. Just watch the evening news, or Google California debt, California middle class, California tent cities, California air pollution, California income inequality, California homelessness. California has more people that are in poverty than any other state. I'm not talking about percentages, I'm talking numbers of people.

California has more people in poverty than some Country's entire populations.

Florida need to avoid making any political changes that will take it down California's path, or Ohio's, or New York's, or New Jersey's, or Connecticut's, or Massachusetts', or Illinois'. Florida has a chance to do things right.

The #1 political change Florida can do in the next 2-4 years is to end government worker pension plans, and convert them to self-directed 401K's. The pension funds keep getting raided by politicians when they re-direct the savings elswhere, dont match as they are supposed to, invest the monies poorly, and then become way underfunded. They also extract huge fees from its members that are way above the market norms.

These workers deserve more. California's pension is $1,000,000,000,000 underwater. Many of those gov't workers are not going to be paid what they were promised. They were robbed. Detroit is prime example. Illinois is way underwater too. Most cities, county's, and States are. Just Google Government Pension crisis and start reading.

These pensions are unsustainable ponzi scheme's that politicians use as piggy banks, and Wall Steet sucks fees out of. I'm tired of seeing these government workers being played, and taxes being raised on the rest of us to repay what was stolen. Its just like Social Security all over again.
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Old 11-14-2018, 02:58 PM
 
10,576 posts, read 10,805,223 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
And one party state will be bad. It does not excuse one if another is a different rand just as bad.
One seems to be less bad and that's obvious.

The most successful states imo are FL and tx which are both PURPLE!

But given the choice between a deep red or deep blue state, no way in hell I'd move to Mississippi
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Old 11-14-2018, 05:03 PM
 
17,453 posts, read 10,525,134 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chopchop0 View Post
One seems to be less bad and that's obvious.

The most successful states imo are FL and tx which are both PURPLE!

But given the choice between a deep red or deep blue state, no way in hell I'd move to Mississippi
Purple is better than either other choice.
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Old 11-15-2018, 12:40 AM
 
7,906 posts, read 4,832,265 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beach43ofus View Post
California is a total mess, and everyone with a brain knows it. They don't need to see any links.


Says a poster after the inaccuracy of his statements about California were documented. See post 44.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beach43ofus View Post
Just watch the evening news, or Google California debt, California middle class, California tent cities, California air pollution, California income inequality, California homelessness. California has more people that are in poverty than any other state. I'm not talking about percentages, I'm talking numbers of people.

California has more people in poverty than some Country's entire populations.

Florida need to avoid making any political changes that will take it down California's path, or Ohio's, or New York's, or New Jersey's, or Connecticut's, or Massachusetts', or Illinois'. Florida has a chance to do things right..

The #1 political change Florida can do in the next 2-4 years is to end government worker pension plans, and convert them to self-directed 401K's. The pension funds keep getting raided by politicians when they re-direct the savings elswhere, dont match as they are supposed to, invest the monies poorly, and then become way underfunded. They also extract huge fees from its members that are way above the market norms.
Just more unsubstantiated, even inaccurate hysteria.

See post 20 in this thread.

Florida Economy ranks high

What Florida needs above all else is to rid itself of man-made climate change science denier leaders and focus on the existential threats to its existence.

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...elizabeth-rush

For a "tomorrow."

https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/...219770350.html

Hopefully, the readers of this thread will watch the Miami episode of the PBS "Sinking Cities" series scheduled to air Nov. 21.

Sinking Cities: Miami Preview | Peril & Promise

Regarding ending pension plans, let's look at it from a teacher's perspective. Florida has the 7th worst teacher salaries in the U.S. and now you want to take away pensions and replace them with problematic 401(k)s, a difficult proposition for experienced let alone inexperienced investors?

https://www.barrons.com/articles/fid...uit-1539977967

What will keep dedicated and desirable teachers in Florida, especially as environmental degradation takes hold? See post 44 here.

Your top 5 concerns

Your political priorities are clearly those of a man-made climate change science denier and one-percent greeder with no demonstrated concern for the long-term Florida social condition, let alone Florida's actual physical existence in the decades ahead.

Actually, thinking about Florida's environmental prospects, if I were a Florida teacher and knew anything about investing, if Florida actually would commit to putting both my pension contribution AND the employer contribution calculated on my salary into a 401(k), I would take the deal in a second. This would never happen, however, because anybody who knows anything about underfunded pension plans (NOT the poster being responded to) would know that the employer contributions to underfunded state plans greatly goes to cure pension and retiree medical benefit plan underfunding and therefore to pay for the retirement of retired or older teachers. If I were a young teacher, most of all I would try my best to get a job in another state, perhaps a non-coastal "blue" state which rewards teachers with high compensation levels

In reality, if Florida committed to a meaningful 401(k) "match" as provided by most employers who have replaced their defined benefit pension plans with a defined contribution 401(k) plan, Florida's pension funding costs likely would actually increase as the state still would have to cure its pension underfunding with some means other than the disproportionate use of employer contributions.

Last edited by WRnative; 11-15-2018 at 01:13 AM..
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Old 11-15-2018, 02:12 AM
 
7,906 posts, read 4,832,265 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beach43ofus View Post
Californian's are going to Nevada, Arizona, & Texas.
In 2013, California had the 3rd highest population growth of any state.

The Migration of Millions: 2017 State Population Estimates | Newgeography.com
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Old 11-15-2018, 03:29 AM
 
10,576 posts, read 10,805,223 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beach43ofus View Post
Bad attempt at deflection....California leads the US in poverty, high taxes, air pollution, tent cities, income disparity, pension debt $1T, state debt $2.3T. Since 1992, Libs have destroyed Cali's finances and middle class. Cali has wealthy residents and poverty stricken residents w/o much in between.

Florida's political changes in the next 2-4 years should not follow California's in any way, shape, or form. In fact, doing the opposite of California would be better.
Despite your right wing dogma, there is far more poverty in red states. Mississippi is the most impoverished nation in the country

https://mississippitoday.org/2017/09...ld-income-u-s/

Right wingers love to talk about trickle down and rising tides lifting all boats and that economic growth happens way more in Cali than many red states
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