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Old 11-16-2018, 07:08 AM
 
2,385 posts, read 888,582 times
Reputation: 1670

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How'd the weather this morning up in Cleveland WRnative? It's another beautiful day down here in Florida.

So, you claim "Florida's income peaked in 2006"..wow, what a totally irrelavant fact since 2006 was the start of Oblunders great recession and everything tanked from that point until President Trump beat Hillary cough cough Clinton.

So, you say Florida's income is only down 3.6% from its 2006 peak...that's great news and shows tremendous resiliency. Florida's probably already made up that small gap w/ the rise of the stock market, rise in interest rates, and rising wages in President Trump's economy.

You do know that income is not nearly as important to Florida as it is to other states because so many Floridians are retired, and live off of great wealth nesteggs they brought here from elsewhere. They no longer solely rely upon income to thrive. Its called retirement planning. Many have no earned income at all which lowers aggregate Statewide income. Floridians have investment income, and nesteggs to live off. I hope you are able to achieve the same...I have.

Florida's a retirement state, and comparing income metrics from Florida to any other state lacks intelligence.

If you want a metric to compare, measure Florida's residents average net worth to other States, then factor in cost of living of each state, and then you'd have a valid assessment of how well-off Floridians really are compared nationally.

Since you cant Google: California + Middle Class & read the articles, here's just 1 link, but there are many many more:

https://fee.org/articles/can-califor...-class-exodus/

This is what 25 years of Liberal control did to Cali, and we need to be sure not to repeat these political changes here in Florida in the next 2-4 years...or ever. Progressive, Liberal, Socialist policy's always yields a minority elite wealthy upper class in control of the masses who live in poverty. California's still in the early stages, and one must look elsewhere to see what their future holds. 3% of Californians pay 60% of the States income taxes. This is gross income inequalty caused by 25 years of Liberal policy. CA is also $2.3T in debt and is now looking for bailouts from the rest of the States...like Florida.

Whatever political changes Florida makes in the next 2-4 years, we must learn from the mistakes made in; California, New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Detroit, and Illinois. We must learn from history, or the same will occur here.
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Old 11-16-2018, 07:55 AM
 
17,592 posts, read 10,667,112 times
Reputation: 8519
Quote:
Originally Posted by beach43ofus View Post
How'd the weather this morning up in Cleveland WRnative? It's another beautiful day down here in Florida.

So, you claim "Florida's income peaked in 2006"..wow, what a totally irrelavant fact since 2006 was the start of Oblunders great recession and everything tanked from that point until President Trump beat Hillary cough cough Clinton.

So, you say Florida's income is only down 3.6% from its 2006 peak...that's great news and shows tremendous resiliency. Florida's probably already made up that small gap w/ the rise of the stock market, rise in interest rates, and rising wages in President Trump's economy.

You do know that income is not nearly as important to Florida as it is to other states because so many Floridians are retired, and live off of great wealth nesteggs they brought here from elsewhere. They no longer solely rely upon income to thrive. Its called retirement planning. Many have no earned income at all which lowers aggregate Statewide income. Floridians have investment income, and nesteggs to live off. I hope you are able to achieve the same...I have.

Florida's a retirement state, and comparing income metrics from Florida to any other state lacks intelligence.

If you want a metric to compare, measure Florida's residents average net worth to other States, then factor in cost of living of each state, and then you'd have a valid assessment of how well-off Floridians really are compared nationally.

Since you cant Google: California + Middle Class & read the articles, here's just 1 link, but there are many many more:

https://fee.org/articles/can-califor...-class-exodus/

This is what 25 years of Liberal control did to Cali, and we need to be sure not to repeat these political changes here in Florida in the next 2-4 years...or ever. Progressive, Liberal, Socialist policy's always yields a minority elite wealthy upper class in control of the masses who live in poverty. California's still in the early stages, and one must look elsewhere to see what their future holds. 3% of Californians pay 60% of the States income taxes. This is gross income inequalty caused by 25 years of Liberal policy. CA is also $2.3T in debt and is now looking for bailouts from the rest of the States...like Florida.

Whatever political changes Florida makes in the next 2-4 years, we must learn from the mistakes made in; California, New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Detroit, and Illinois. We must learn from history, or the same will occur here.
No one ever learns from history, so don't hold your breath.
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Old 11-16-2018, 08:01 AM
 
Location: Inland FL
1,256 posts, read 725,080 times
Reputation: 2198
In the last 20 years, white Southerners have trended more Republican. The south used to be all democratic or "dixie-crat". Many of these people switched to Republican starting in the 80s. Rural areas of FL vote almost exclusively Republican. Urban areas are Democratic.
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Old 11-16-2018, 08:08 AM
 
2,385 posts, read 888,582 times
Reputation: 1670
Quote:
Originally Posted by floridarebel View Post
In the last 20 years, white Southerners have trended more Republican. The south used to be all democratic or "dixie-crat". Many of these people switched to Republican starting in the 80s.
I think that is partially due to the Democrats moving futher left and abandoning the centrist members of their party. This gave rise to the RINO's who saw this and capitalized in some areas like John McCain did in Arizona.

John F Kennedy would be Republican today, and woudn't go anywhere near the Socialist leaning lefty libs.

I used to vote for Dems sometimes, and would not rule out doing so again, but not this current angry mob.
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Old 11-17-2018, 02:33 PM
 
7,906 posts, read 4,892,133 times
Reputation: 4101
Quote:
Originally Posted by beach43ofus View Post
Since you cant Google: California + Middle Class & read the articles, here's just 1 link, but there are many many more:

https://fee.org/articles/can-califor...-class-exodus/

This is what 25 years of Liberal control did to Cali, and we need to be sure not to repeat these political changes here in Florida in the next 2-4 years...or ever. Progressive, Liberal, Socialist policy's always yields a minority elite wealthy upper class in control of the masses who live in poverty. California's still in the early stages, and one must look elsewhere to see what their future holds. 3% of Californians pay 60% of the States income taxes. This is gross income inequalty caused by 25 years of Liberal policy. CA is also $2.3T in debt and is now looking for bailouts from the rest of the States...like Florida.

Whatever political changes Florida makes in the next 2-4 years, we must learn from the mistakes made in; California, New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Detroit, and Illinois. We must learn from history, or the same will occur here.
Tired of playing whack-a-mole with C-D forum Florida man-made climate change deniers, who repeat fallacious arguments even when previously totally refuted. Do Floridians really believe denier rants that the earth is cooling despite the contrary statements of NASA and almost all climate scientists?

What is clear to the deniers (not so much to me) is that the game is on between Florida and California. While the denier Republicans hang on in Florida, the Republican Party has been demolished in California.

Perhaps the deniers in this thread can explain to me how the Democrats control California, including Orange County of all places, if they are so detrimental to the middle class and Californians in general.

I also was surprised to learn that California has a $14 billion budget surplus, even while delivering superior services compared to Florida. Is it possible that superior CA public school educations and superior public universities actually pay for themselves?

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...ebacle-1000481

https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics...221653225.html

Meanwhile, Florida faces budget shortfalls in 2020 and 2021, which may be further impacted by tourism shortfalls as the dire consequences of man-made climate change continue to degrade the attractiveness of Florida as a tourist destination.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...s-to-work-with

What happens if residential housing development weakens, as is happening nationally?

https://www.sarasotamagazine.com/art...-estate-bubble

How will Florida cure any budget shortfalls except by further slashing services, such as environmental regulation, given the new Florida Constitution requirement for legislative super-majorities to raise taxes and fees? Where will funds come from to cut nutrient pollution?

What's also clear to me, but won't be discussed by Florida deniers is the Great Florida Reef is dying, at a great economical cost to Florida and to its fisheries; Florida is ongoing ACCELERATING inundation; warming oceans also will lead to more persistent and severe toxic algae blooms; as of yet, Florida is doing nothing to clean up nutrient pollution that nourishes toxic algae; Florida is facing accelerating loss of its beaches and even shore erosion; salt water intrusion poses a costly threat to southern Florida's fresh water supplies that must be faced immediately; and poor education services doom the future economic livelihoods of many Florida residents, especially if the tourism industry outside of the Orlando theme park mecca faces an ongoing decline, as foreshadowed by the red tide disaster of the past year. The environmental consequences have been documented repeatedly in Florida forum threads.

And you can bet that the one-percent deniers posting in these threads will be the first to the exits once it is clear that music is about to stop in Florida's high-stakes game of musical chairs.

Sadly, a transition away from fossil fuel consumption could help mitigate many of the above described consequences, and yet deniers still rule in Florida. It perplexes me how this is possible unless a large percentage of retirees and other Florida residents are scientifically challenged or totally indifferent to plight of future generations or even the predicted inundation of this state. Can't they do the math of the implications of the rate of sea level rise doubling every 7-8 years? What do they think will halt this disastrous rate of acceleration other than a transition away from fossil fuel consumption?

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...elizabeth-rush

https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/...219770350.html

It's not like they haven't been warned.

Last edited by WRnative; 11-17-2018 at 02:55 PM..
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Old 11-17-2018, 04:51 PM
 
18 posts, read 9,816 times
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Yikes I'm not sure where anyone got the misguided idea that CA has a good public education system?!

Florida outperforms CA at every grade level and subject
https://nces.ed.gov/programs/stateprofiles/

Another more subjective ranking
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...ls/1079181001/

An article highlighting TX but also showing how awful CA is
https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckde.../#6ae212722021
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Old 11-18-2018, 07:26 AM
 
7,906 posts, read 4,892,133 times
Reputation: 4101
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinktacos View Post
Yikes I'm not sure where anyone got the misguided idea that CA has a good public education system?!

Florida outperforms CA at every grade level and subject
https://nces.ed.gov/programs/stateprofiles/

Another more subjective ranking
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...ls/1079181001/

An article highlighting TX but also showing how awful CA is
https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckde.../#6ae212722021
Those are interesting links. Thanks for posting.

What interested me was that neither of the first two links provided statistics for high school achievement; I didn't noodle through the third link (it emphasized the high scores in Texas, ignoring the cheating scandals on testing that have afflicted that state). CA likely has many more students with English as a second language, who perhaps perform better in high school once they master English. School rankings by pupil performance rarely are adjusted to reflect deficiencies/advantages of student bodies. CA's 8th-grade NAEP math proficiency at 27.1 percent was higher than in FL (26.1 percent), but lower in reading.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...ls/1079181001/

A real shocker, which should make CA more attractive to low-tax greeders who dominate FL forums, is that CA spends less per student on primary and secondary public schools ($9,417) than FL ($9,737), reflected in higher pupil/teacher ratios given CA's much higher teacher salaries. Both are among the lowest in the nation.

Where CA shines is in public universities, and perhaps in community colleges. Not even considering privates schools such as Stanford (ranked 7), Cal Tech (12), USC (22), Pepperdine (46), Univ. of San Diego (85), and Univ. of San Francisco (96), California has some of the best public universities in the U.S. (national rankings: UCLA 19th, Berkeley 22nd, Univ. of California - Santa Barbara 30th, Univ. of CA - Irvine 33, Univ. of CA - Davis 38, Univ. of CA 41, Univ. of CA - Santa Cruz 70, and Univ. of CA - Riverside 85).

Florida possesses no elite private universities. The Univ. of FL is the state's highest ranked public university at 35. The Univ. of Miami is FL's top-ranked private university at 53. Florida State is Florida's next highest ranked university at 70. There are NO other Florida universities in the top 100. The Univ. of South Florida is next highest, ranked 124.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges...l-universities

Perhaps it's no surprise then that the percentage of Californian adults with at least a bachelor's degree at 32.9 percent is 15 percent higher than the 28.6 percentage in Florida. Advanced degrees in California are held by 11.6 percent of the population compared to 9.8 percent in Florida, but I suspect a much larger portion of the FL advanced degree holders, and even bachelor's degree holders, are retirees.

Also, see figure 4 in this report. While California's public school equivalent higher education full-time enrollment increased about 2 percent from 2012 to 2017, it fell about 7 percent in Florida. Also, see figure 5, showing California has increased public higher education appropriations by almost twice as much during that period as Florida. See Table 4, showing that in 2017 constant dollars that California's spending per full-time equivalent student at $8,447 is over 30 percent higher than Florida's $6,456.

http://www.sheeo.org/sites/default/f...2017_FINAL.pdf

The quality of higher education, the end results, is what impressed me with CA compared to FL.

Last edited by WRnative; 11-18-2018 at 08:00 AM..
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Old 11-18-2018, 07:55 AM
 
47 posts, read 17,062 times
Reputation: 26
I just moved to Florida from up North, and I'm working hard to turn this state Blue! We can be like California of the east.
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Old 11-18-2018, 08:50 AM
 
11,383 posts, read 7,827,485 times
Reputation: 12277
Florida is turning blue as a state, it's purple now as a state with some red and blue areas. People are sick of the Republicans only being for the rich and giving them tax cuts and ignoring out health care needs. Health care is a necessity not a luxury. People also see that Republicans are letting polluters ruin our waters by letting big sugar and other industries pollute our waterways. The party who wants to make it harder to vote, which are the Republicans should be voted out.
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Old 11-18-2018, 12:43 PM
 
2,385 posts, read 888,582 times
Reputation: 1670
Quote:
Originally Posted by LifeIsGood01 View Post
Florida is turning blue as a state, it's purple now as a state with some red and blue areas. People are sick of the Republicans only being for the rich and giving them tax cuts and ignoring out health care needs. Health care is a necessity not a luxury. People also see that Republicans are letting polluters ruin our waters by letting big sugar and other industries pollute our waterways. The party who wants to make it harder to vote, which are the Republicans should be voted out.
Florida's demographics are changing, and this is likely the Republicans last hoorah, but I'm enjoying every moment of it while it lasts. I'm so happy Nelson, and Gillum lost...both horrendous candidates, Nelson's too old and votes only as Shumer tells him to and Gillum's a Socialist. The political changes those 2 would have brought would have killed Florida's economy.

Did you know that EX-Democrat politician Bill Nelson took lots of money from Big Sugar? True.

Rebublicans being only for the rich? Nope, Obama couldn't get wages to rise, Trump has. Trump's economy is helping so many American's of every income level. Obama's great recession hurt low wage earners and minority's much worse than Trumps economic boom times. Trump wanted to pass a huge Middle Class tax break, but Dems wouldn't let him.

"Republicans making it harder to vote" Nope, wrong again...Democrats didn't want to let women vote, or African Americans, and Republicans beat them down and made it happen. Republicans are just asking for voters to show picture ID so poll workers can verify voters are voting legally.

I think you are watching too much CNN.
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