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Old 11-21-2018, 07:24 AM
 
Location: western East Roman Empire
6,618 posts, read 10,677,850 times
Reputation: 5774

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Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
Yep Miami could be like Venice Italy which has faced rising waters for a long time and is... still there.
Indeed.

I more fear self-appointed, self-serving "pollsters", "statisticians", "scientists" and "experts" than climate change which is easier to adapt to and certainly smells better than human arrogance which is more toxic than red tide and other noxious substances.
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Old 11-21-2018, 09:10 AM
 
7,906 posts, read 4,876,422 times
Reputation: 4101
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
Yep Miami could be like Venice Italy which has faced rising waters for a long time and is... still there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bale002 View Post
Indeed.

I more fear self-appointed, self-serving "pollsters", "statisticians", "scientists" and "experts" than climate change which is easier to adapt to and certainly smells better than human arrogance which is more toxic than red tide and other noxious substances.
Neither of you rebut any of the warnings of Harold Wanless explained and documented in post 79. Deniers believe that their "feel facts" are superior to empirical evidence and scientific research.

If deniers weren't so pathetically dangerous, any well educated individual would find claims of scientific superiority based on only a "natural instinct for science" (the exact words of the "Denier-in-Chief') laughable.

Regarding Venice:

Venice Flooding 2018 Shows Need in Italy For Flood Barriers | Fortune

Real facts, NOT "feel facts."
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Old 11-21-2018, 09:56 AM
 
Location: Inland FL
1,254 posts, read 720,876 times
Reputation: 2179
Why do developers keep building so many houses, apartments, condos, and skyscrapers in south Florida and along the coast if it's all supposed to be under water shortly? I don't understand that. Most of the population down there vote liberal too, if they felt so strongly about the environment, they wouldn't be living down there.
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Old 11-21-2018, 01:21 PM
 
17,570 posts, read 10,630,443 times
Reputation: 8482
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
Neither of you rebut any of the warnings of Harold Wanless explained and documented in post 79. Deniers believe that their "feel facts" are superior to empirical evidence and scientific research.

If deniers weren't so pathetically dangerous, any well educated individual would find claims of scientific superiority based on only a "natural instinct for science" (the exact words of the "Denier-in-Chief') laughable.

Regarding Venice:

Venice Flooding 2018 Shows Need in Italy For Flood Barriers | Fortune

Real facts, NOT "feel facts."
Please show me where I have ever denied the problems?


I was just pointing out that cities have a way of dealing with such problems as they are nothing new. Think of the dikes in the netherlands and they have dealt with water issues for a loooong time.
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Old 11-21-2018, 01:22 PM
 
17,570 posts, read 10,630,443 times
Reputation: 8482
Quote:
Originally Posted by floridarebel View Post
Why do developers keep building so many houses, apartments, condos, and skyscrapers in south Florida and along the coast if it's all supposed to be under water shortly? I don't understand that. Most of the population down there vote liberal too, if they felt so strongly about the environment, they wouldn't be living down there.
Two reasons.


1. To make money
2. People of both parties want a house there.
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Old 11-21-2018, 02:08 PM
 
7,906 posts, read 4,876,422 times
Reputation: 4101
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
Please show me where I have ever denied the problems?


I was just pointing out that cities have a way of dealing with such problems as they are nothing new. Think of the dikes in the netherlands and they have dealt with water issues for a loooong time.
You said Miami like Venice, implying there was nothing to worry about in Miami regarding sea level rise.

There's plenty to worry about in both Miami and Venice.

Perhaps watch the Miami episode of "Sinking Cities" on PBS this evening. See post 43.

New PBS series "Sinking Cities" -- Miami most at risk?
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Old 11-22-2018, 05:56 AM
 
2,367 posts, read 878,698 times
Reputation: 1653
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
You said Miami like Venice, implying there was nothing to worry about in Miami regarding sea level rise.

There's plenty to worry about in both Miami and Venice.

Perhaps watch the Miami episode of "Sinking Cities" on PBS this evening. See post 43.

New PBS series "Sinking Cities" -- Miami most at risk?
WRnative...Cleveland's sinking too, so maybe Miami has the same problems as Cleveland (where you live):

https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/...nto-the-ground

https://wiot.iheart.com/featured/ham...ear-cleveland/

Maybe Miami has a aquafur beneath it, or a mathane gas pocket, or some other fossil fuel deposit not far beneath the surface. Is the water rising, or is the land sinking? If the water was rising, wouldnt Ft. Lauderdale, Boca, Delray, West Palm Beach,all of them have the same issue?

I think Miami's sinking has a similar root cause to Cleveland's sinking issues.

How's the global warming up there this morning? 19 degrees.ouch!
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Old 11-22-2018, 06:03 AM
 
2,367 posts, read 878,698 times
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Well, now that Florida has a Democrat for Agricultural Commissioner (Nikki Fried), I expect ALL the Nitrogen runoff to cease, and no more Red Tide or Green Slime. I expect that the sugar fields and livestock ranches will both be run out of the state...pronto!
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Old 11-22-2018, 07:48 AM
 
10,575 posts, read 10,853,403 times
Reputation: 5225
Quote:
Originally Posted by beach43ofus View Post
Well, now that Florida has a Democrat for Agricultural Commissioner (Nikki Fried), I expect ALL the Nitrogen runoff to cease, and no more Red Tide or Green Slime. I expect that the sugar fields and livestock ranches will both be run out of the state...pronto!
Certainly will be better than having an anti science Republican in office
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Old 11-22-2018, 08:41 AM
 
7,906 posts, read 4,876,422 times
Reputation: 4101
Quote:
Originally Posted by beach43ofus View Post
WRnative...Cleveland's sinking too, so maybe Miami has the same problems as Cleveland (where you live):

https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/...nto-the-ground

https://wiot.iheart.com/featured/ham...ear-cleveland/

Maybe Miami has a aquafur beneath it, or a mathane gas pocket, or some other fossil fuel deposit not far beneath the surface. Is the water rising, or is the land sinking? If the water was rising, wouldnt Ft. Lauderdale, Boca, Delray, West Palm Beach,all of them have the same issue?

I think Miami's sinking has a similar root cause to Cleveland's sinking issues.

How's the global warming up there this morning? 19 degrees.ouch!


Greater Cleveland also has sink holes caused by leaks in water mains. And there are areas where large rainfalls cause flooding.

I wouldn't recommend anyone build on top of an old waste landfill, as had been done in one of your suggested links. Most modern landfills in Ohio have methane collection systems built into the landfill. Nor should

Anyway, only a dumb dumb man-made climate change science denier would seek to equate accelerating sea level rise, or a "rapidly intensifying" hurricane threat, with the very isolated problems that you described in your post.

Watched the Miami "Sinking Cities" PBS episode last night. It was interesting how the cities were seeking to adapt to sea level rises much less than anticipated by Harold Wanless, the Univ. of Miami sea level rise expert who was not interviewed.

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...elizabeth-rush

E.g., Miami Beach has raised roads only 30 inches, but admitted that roads might have to be raised even more in the future.

Watching the episode, southern Florida coastal communities appear likely in the near future to depend on massive pumping systems running almost constantly to remove sea water seeping up through the area's porous limestone foundation. There was no mention of how much it will cost to operate and maintain these systems, especially as the collected water is treated before being forced back into Biscayne Bay. The Miami Beach system has a 5 million gallon/minute pumping capacity, according to the show. NOT CHEAP. Can poorer communities afford this?

Stormwater Program | Miami Beach - Rising Above

Perhaps the most informative information provided by the Miami sinking episode was the segment on "hurricane intensification." This phenomenon apparently is fairly recent but now affects most hurricanes that cause damage in Florida, according to the report. "Hurricane spray" is the means of transmitting the heat of warming oceans to hurricanes, according to research at the Univ. of Miami, where a massive wave machine duplicates the conditions of powerful hurricanes for controlled study.

https://www.marinelink.com/news/univ...esearch-441010

Acclimating to sea rise likely will be a Sisyphean effort in southern Florida, a never-ending task until area after area is simply abandoned.

Sadly, the Miami sinking episode didn't even mention that the cheapest way, and perhaps only way in the long run, for Florida to mitigate sea level rise would be a global effort to transition away from fossil fuel consumption. Instead, Florida with the encouragement of denier propagandists elects denier politicians who support increased fossil fuel consumption.

Deniers in C-D forums increasingly don't want to discuss Florida's political issues, but instead deflect the discussions to gross, unsubstantiated representations about California, and now Ohio! Unlike California, Ohio's governor and legislature is controlled by Republican deniers set on transforming Ohio into a red state.

The Miami episode of "Sinking Cities" now can be watched online.

https://www.pbs.org/video/sinking-cities-miami-bcdxzj/
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