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Old 12-02-2018, 07:59 AM
 
11,383 posts, read 7,772,225 times
Reputation: 12258

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw335xi View Post
Storms in florida have calmed down compared to before. I think it’s good to adopt recycling and being green for keeping the environment clean. But honestly anyone who thinks saying “climate change is real” in florida will make the difference of constant monster storms vs no storms ever is living a fantasy. You could eliminate all the cars in florida and it wont make a difference to florida hurricanes. Emerging countries are the ones that really need to change. However, i still support green efforts for simply keeping our environment clean.
it is real and it's a problem that is only going to get worse if we ignore it or do something stupid like pull out of the Paris climate accord like Trump did.

I don't know why Rick Scott's angle is to not let anyone in his administration utter the terms climate change, it has to be money and big business and it's hurting out state.

Hurricane Michael came into the gulf and passed SW Florida in the mid gulf as a Cat 2.

I then gained strength from the warm gulf waters that were 3 to 4 degrees warmer that's all it takes to make a cat 2 turn into almost a cat 5 and devastate beach towns.

So anyone who says man made climate change is a hoax or not a problems is either woefully ignorant or a liar.
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Old 12-02-2018, 08:00 AM
 
Location: Washington Park, Denver
6,937 posts, read 6,545,853 times
Reputation: 7421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrie22 View Post
....too stupid to see it's both

Hillary Raises 'Twice As Much' From the Oil Industry As Trump

Hillary Raises 'Twice As Much' From the Oil Industry As Trump | Fortune
I said politicians, not republicans. This actually makes my point on big oil. Your position is that the scientific community is propagating a massive conspiracy because of the money. How many millionaire scientists do you know?? (because I know a lot of oil millionaires and billionaires)

You seem to be completely ignoring the proof that big oil has paid people off on multiple occasions to bury reports on climate change. It’s really bizarre to me that you think rational people would buy your argument. It makes no sense. Where are the millions in donations from “big science” ?????

Last edited by SkyDog77; 12-02-2018 at 08:42 AM..
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Old 12-02-2018, 08:11 AM
 
7,906 posts, read 4,864,721 times
Reputation: 4101
Default Hurricane rapid intensification

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw335xi View Post
Hurricanes were worse and more frequent in the past, fact. There is nothing FL can do to stop hurricanes from happening, fact.
Scientists deal with empirical evidence. Man-made climate change science deniers deal with "feel facts," or more likely IMO deliberate prevarications and obfuscations, such as the "Denier-in-Chief's" claim that he can ignore the scientific method because he has a superior "natural instinct for science."

Trump's 'natural instinct for science' is not serving him (or us) well | MSNBC

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ce/1674336002/

What does the empirical evidence definitively say? The oceans surrounding Florida continue to warm significantly. Scientists know that warmer oceans result in the rapid intensification of hurricanes.

I haven't seen anything about how climate change will impact the frequency of hurricanes.

Deniers also engage in the easy dismissal of facts. Nobody reading their comments in this thread would know that Hurricane Michael unexpectedly experienced rapid intensification. In fact, "rapid intensification" are just two more words, such as "ocean acidification," that apparently are banned from denier vocabulary.

Hurricane Michael jumped from a category 2 to almost a category 5 hurricane in just 24 hours. Scientists attribute this rapid intensification to the anomalously warm Gulf of Mexico waters. Deniers apparently believe it was the result of the waving of some sorcerer's wand.

Hurricane Michael had the highest wind speeds of any recorded hurricane to ever strike the Florida Panhandle and it was the third strongest to make landfall in the U.S.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018...ntensification

As the above article indicates, scientists believe that the water/atmosphere transitional zone is critical to the rapid intensification of hurricanes.

One of the most informative aspects of the Miami episode of the PBS "Sinking Cities" was its emphasis on hurricane rapid intensification. This show really wasn't at all about Miami sinking, and suprisingly little about sea level rise; it mostly discussed the hurricane threat to Miami. One segment featured an interview of Brian Haus, director of the University of Miami's Alfred C. Glassel, Jr., SUSTAIN Laboratory. The SUSTAIN facility apparently contains the only hurricane simulator extant capable of reproducing a Category 5 hurricane. Haus explained that almost all recent hurricanes experienced rapid intensification. He also said that they were researching ocean spray in the ocean/atmospheric interface as this likely was the means by which ocean heat was transferred to hurricanes resulting in intensification.

UM Rosenstiel School | Marine & Atmospheric Science

It's likely as a result of this and other research within the next decade that hurricane warnings will include not only like landfall zones, but also "rapid intensification" predictions.

In the meantime, Florida residents living in the landfall path of a Category 2 or 3 hurricane may want to presume that rapid intensification is a risk and run, as rapid intensification may not yet be discussed, or even reflected sufficiently, in the hurricane warnings. It's a distinct possibility after Hurricane Michael, which, thankfully, did not strike a heavily developed area, that hurricane warnings will discuss the possibility, but perhaps not likelihood, of rapid intensification.

Anybody interested in science, and not denier prevarications and obfuscations, should watch the Miami episode of the PBS "Sinking Cities" series. They should consider that evacuation routes may be insufficient to evacuate major cities, especially Miami, in the wake of a last-minute, rapid intensification warning, a danger discussed in the show. See posts 55 and 57 in this thread.

New PBS series "Sinking Cities" -- Miami most at risk?

Likely due to denier influence both in the Florida government and among the vociferous Trump/denier/development political base, southern Florida seems to be in denial about the existential threats posed by man-made climate change to southern Floridians. The evidence? The Miami Herald apparently, based on a search, didn't write a single story about the Miami episode of the "Sinking Cities" PBS series. How is that possible?

However, the Miami Herald has produced stories about hurricane rapid intensification. Note that rapid intensification is deemed to have occurred when hurricane wind speeds increase at least 35 mph within 24 hours.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/wea...209666704.html

Note that the U.S. has experienced four Category 4 strikes just in the last year. The following article contains a new (to me anyway) element in the science of rapid intensification -- the Gulf of Mexico's Loop Current, which "sustain very high heat content" in Gulf waters. The article notes that the one degree Celsius warming in the Gulf has resulted in "exponential changes" including much higher rates of evaporation which fuel hurricanes. When Michael arrived, ocean temperatures in the northern Gulf were two to three degrees C. (3.6 to 5.4 degrees Fahrenheit) above normal. Wind shear, which normally weakens hurricanes, was present but didn't halt Michael's rapid intensification.

https://www.miamiherald.com/latest-n...219864155.html

So objective observers can listen to scientists, or they can believe the denier drivel spouted by the "Denier-in-Chief" and posted so frequently in C-D Florida threads. Due to the silence of obfuscations of denier politicians, how many Floridians understand that Hurricane Michael underwent rapid intensification? How many Floridians could even explain the term "rapid intensification?"

Last edited by WRnative; 12-02-2018 at 08:19 AM..
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Old 12-02-2018, 08:36 AM
 
Location: US
17,914 posts, read 17,814,409 times
Reputation: 13930
I repeat there is nothing FL can do to stop hurricanes. They have hit FL since the begining of time. Stats show if anything hurricanes have calmed down over time. However, for the sake of argument, say they haven’t become less frequent. There is NOTHING FL can do to stop them from happening. This is a state forum, so if you want to dicuss global politics, there is a form for that. You could get rid of every car in FL, it wouldn’t make a drop of difference.
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Old 12-02-2018, 09:38 AM
 
2,788 posts, read 811,757 times
Reputation: 1627
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyDog77 View Post
I said politicians, not republicans. This actually makes my point on big oil. Your position is that the scientific community is propagating a massive conspiracy because of the money. How many millionaire scientists do you know?? (because I know a lot of oil millionaires and billionaires)

You seem to be completely ignoring the proof that big oil has paid people off on multiple occasions to bury reports on climate change. It’s really bizarre to me that you think rational people would buy your argument. It makes no sense. Where are the millions in donations from “big science” ?????
blah blah blah...and I said both....politicians and scientists

No climate scientist is going to keep their job by saying "nothing to see here"....and the more hysterical predictions they make...the more money comes in to study it

...problem is, they have zero repercussions for making wrong hysterical predictions...just the opposite....the more hysterical the prediction, the more press they get....and when they are wrong, no one calls them on it

..and they have not made one correct prediction yet
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Old 12-02-2018, 09:44 AM
 
21,180 posts, read 30,336,326 times
Reputation: 19590
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle19125 View Post
Only in America do have so much nay-saying of climate change theory put forth by around 80% of the world's most brilliant scientists, but find prediction of whether or not Spring is arriving each year via a groundhog's behavior completely acceptable. No wonder the rest of the industrialized world points and laughs...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrie22 View Post
...has it occurred to you that we might not be as gullible...and question all of their wrong predictions
I'm going to go with "no" given the very evident falling IQ levels of the American public.

https://www.pennlive.com/opinion/201...e_tom_nic.html
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Old 12-02-2018, 09:57 AM
 
2,788 posts, read 811,757 times
Reputation: 1627
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle19125 View Post
I'm going to go with "no" given the very evident falling IQ levels of the American public.
I'll see your IQ's...and raise you a religious fanatic

It's like a atheist trying to talk religion with a religious fanatic....
...personal attacks...call you a heretic (denier)
Send their disciples out to convert the world to their religion...

In spite of all the evidence to the contrary......you must believe
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Old 12-02-2018, 10:35 AM
 
Location: Washington Park, Denver
6,937 posts, read 6,545,853 times
Reputation: 7421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrie22 View Post
blah blah blah...and I said both....politicians and scientists

No climate scientist is going to keep their job by saying "nothing to see here"....and the more hysterical predictions they make...the more money comes in to study it

...problem is, they have zero repercussions for making wrong hysterical predictions...just the opposite....the more hysterical the prediction, the more press they get....and when they are wrong, no one calls them on it

..and they have not made one correct prediction yet
Nobody calls them on being wrong? What are you doing? What is the entire Republican Party doing?

It seems like you have no idea how peer reviewed research works. In your mind you get to make a claim without any logic or data and people pay you. That’s not how science works. That’s how politics works. They are quite different.

There is far more money available if a scientist wants to say that there is no climate change and can actually prove it. Oil and gas will line your pockets. For us to believe you, we’d have to believe that there are more billions out there that people stand to make from climate change being real than if it isn’t. Can you please tell me where this money is? (Please say George Soros)
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Old 12-02-2018, 10:55 AM
 
2,788 posts, read 811,757 times
Reputation: 1627
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyDog77 View Post
Nobody calls them on being wrong? What are you doing? What is the entire Republican Party doing?

It seems like you have no idea how peer reviewed research works. In your mind you get to make a claim without any logic or data and people pay you. That’s not how science works. That’s how politics works. They are quite different.

There is far more money available if a scientist wants to say that there is no climate change and can actually prove it. Oil and gas will line your pockets. For us to believe you, we’d have to believe that there are more billions out there that people stand to make from climate change being real than if it isn’t. Can you please tell me where this money is? (Please say George Soros)
I have worked with peer review for over 40 years......you have no idea how it works
...peer review does not mean it's correct

...I said it's exactly like religion....thanks for sharing
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Old 12-02-2018, 11:01 AM
 
7,906 posts, read 4,864,721 times
Reputation: 4101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrie22 View Post
I have worked with peer review for over 40 years......you have no idea how it works
...peer review does not mean it's correct

...I said it's exactly like religion....thanks for sharing
So says some anonymous poster who has demonstrated repeatedly no respect for empirical data and peer-reviewed scientific research.
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