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Old 12-16-2018, 01:31 PM
 
Location: US
17,924 posts, read 17,828,550 times
Reputation: 13930

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Quote:
Originally Posted by chopchop0 View Post
There you go, blatantly lying about anyone who wants gun regulation as being pro gun ban. I've made my position very clear before, even in this thread. No one says we need a blanket gun ban except for the leftist Boogeyman created by right wing pundits.

There is a reason Nikki won and why the NRA has been dropping in approval ratings for years now.
It’s called give credit when due. Scott increased the age which is a huge step in common sense regulation, your reaction, “who cares, shame on him anyways.” That leads me to believe he could have done every single thing you wanted and you’d still find something to complain about.

I voted for Nikki. Florida is a purple state. It isn’t California. It isn’t North Dakota.
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Old 12-16-2018, 01:36 PM
 
Location: Lakewood Ranch, FL
5,320 posts, read 8,176,287 times
Reputation: 6386
Quote:
Originally Posted by chopchop0 View Post
Close the gun loopholes, mandatory waiting period on all gun sales, ban bump stocks and extended magazines .... Tell me again why you need a semiautomatic with 30+ rounds to shoot deer or defend your home?

Even Trump mentioned banning bump stocks for a minute and then the NRA made sure that faded like a fart in the wind
I agree that universal background checks are a good idea but most of the splashy news stories in the last few years have been done with legally purchased firearms so that won't stop those types of events. I just think it's the smart thing to do. Same with waiting periods...most of the splashy news stories were done by people who planned out their attacks. Waiting a few days does practically nothing. Bump stocks are a novelty item and, believe it or not, the same effect can be done with a rubber band so, again, while I support their ban (because I see them as a tricky way of circumventing the law regarding automatic weapons), it's not like they are widely used and, with one notable exception, practically never used in crimes that I've ever heard about. Besides, then what? Ban rubber bands? C'mon....

As for the 30+ mags, I've already provided you with videos that demonstrate that they pose no more threat than smaller magazines so, tell me again what would be achieved by banning them?

My point is that these measures are primarily stupid, knee-jerk, reactions by clueless politicians who don't want to deal with the harder issue of mental illness. Have you ever seen the Sandy Hook Promise website? In my view, they have many of the answers we need and they are reasonable in their approach.
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Old 12-16-2018, 02:01 PM
 
10,575 posts, read 10,847,589 times
Reputation: 5225
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbronston View Post

As for the 30+ mags, I've already provided you with videos that demonstrate that they pose no more threat than smaller magazines so, tell me again what would be achieved by banning them?
Depends on the individual, certainly a way to slow down an inexperienced mass shooter. Tell me again why it's so imperative we have extended magazines and bump stocks?

Last edited by chopchop0; 12-16-2018 at 02:23 PM..
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Old 12-16-2018, 02:25 PM
 
10,575 posts, read 10,847,589 times
Reputation: 5225
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbronston View Post
My point is that these measures are primarily stupid, knee-jerk, reactions by clueless politicians who don't want to deal with the harder issue of mental illness. Have you ever seen the Sandy Hook Promise website? In my view, they have many of the answers we need and they are reasonable in their approach.
Yup. In Japan they make you do a personal interview with the police before they approve your permit. Why can't we have something like that here, along with liability insurance for misuse of a firearm? How many stories have we seen of idiots leaving their guns around kids that end up shooting and killing other kids with them, or worse...
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Old 12-16-2018, 03:48 PM
 
Location: Lakewood Ranch, FL
5,320 posts, read 8,176,287 times
Reputation: 6386
Quote:
Originally Posted by chopchop0 View Post
Depends on the individual, certainly a way to slow down an inexperienced mass shooter. Tell me again why it's so imperative we have extended magazines and bump stocks?
It’s just not true and I think you know it. Even with a person who is slow, it only takes a handful of seconds to change mags. Since you don’t want good guys with guns anywhere in the vicinity, who is going to try rushing the shooter or running away during those few seconds? Most people will try to hide and hope for the best.

So, again...I’ve shown you beyond any doubt that reducing the capacity doesn’t affect the shooter’s ability to put lead down range in any meaningful way. Any time differences are meaningless. Your argument is based on a fallacy. There are hundreds of thousands of them out there owned by lawful people who use them for hobby shooting and hunting and you want to make them felons. Yeah...there’s absolutely nothing “common sense” about your solution. You don’t like it...I get it...but repeating the same wrong argument doesn’t make it any more effective.

And, for the third time (?), I don’t think bump stocks should be legal, the Republican legislature in Florida made them illegal, and the Republican president supports doing the same thing federally. Don’t fool yourself, though, into thinking it will make us safer. As I said, they weren’t a problem before LV and making them illegal didn’t make the very few out there suddenly disappear.

Last edited by bbronston; 12-16-2018 at 03:59 PM..
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Old 12-17-2018, 04:11 AM
 
10,575 posts, read 10,847,589 times
Reputation: 5225
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbronston View Post
It’s just not true and I think you know it. Even with a person who is slow, it only takes a handful of seconds to change mags. Since you don’t want good guys with guns anywhere in the vicinity, who is going to try rushing the shooter or running away during those few seconds? Most people will try to hide and hope for the best.

So, again...I’ve shown you beyond any doubt that reducing the capacity doesn’t affect the shooter’s ability to put lead down range in any meaningful way. Any time differences are meaningless. Your argument is based on a fallacy. There are hundreds of thousands of them out there owned by lawful people who use them for hobby shooting and hunting and you want to make them felons. Yeah...there’s absolutely nothing “common sense” about your solution. You don’t like it...I get it...but repeating the same wrong argument doesn’t make it any more effective.

And, for the third time (?), I don’t think bump stocks should be legal, the Republican legislature in Florida made them illegal, and the Republican president supports doing the same thing federally. Don’t fool yourself, though, into thinking it will make us safer. As I said, they weren’t a problem before LV and making them illegal didn’t make the very few out there suddenly disappear.
Saying something is a fallacy doesn't make it true.. Sometimes seconds are all that is needed to take down a shooter.... And you still have yet to make an argument as to why they are necessary

https://www.thetrace.org/2016/06/hig...ando-shooting/
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Old 12-17-2018, 05:31 AM
 
Location: Lakewood Ranch, FL
5,320 posts, read 8,176,287 times
Reputation: 6386
Either you didn’t watch the video that clearly demonstrated that this line of reasoning is wrong or you’ve chosen to ignore it. My opinion, in contrast to yours, is based on this evidence. I’ve never fired an AR, AK, or any other magazine fed rifle but I can observe and form a reasonable opinion based on expert testimony and evidence and the evidence shows that the capacity size makes very little difference in the volume of shots within a certain period of time. I suppose you can choose to deny your lying eyes.

Regarding your question about why they they are necessary, I thought I made the point clear without using a sledgehammer but I guess I need to go further. “Need” has nothing to do with it. There is no “need” but, then, no one is arguing on the basis of need. Again, they are rarely used in criminal activity but they are used by many people safely for target shooting and hunting, both of which are legal. I’ve mentioned several times that magazine swaps take a minimal amount of time (not in my opinion but as demonstrated in many YouTube videos) so banning their use would accomplish practically nothing in achieving your fantasy scenario of rushing the crazy person between swaps, and banning them would unfairly make criminals out of lawful people.

You can keep arguing it makes sense but it doesn’t. At best, it is an uninspired non-solution to a problem that demands real solutions.
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Old 12-18-2018, 04:52 PM
 
Location: Ormond Beach, FL
1,356 posts, read 1,395,706 times
Reputation: 1239
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbronston View Post
Either you didn’t watch the video that clearly demonstrated that this line of reasoning is wrong or you’ve chosen to ignore it. My opinion, in contrast to yours, is based on this evidence. I’ve never fired an AR, AK, or any other magazine fed rifle but I can observe and form a reasonable opinion based on expert testimony and evidence and the evidence shows that the capacity size makes very little difference in the volume of shots within a certain period of time. I suppose you can choose to deny your lying eyes.

Regarding your question about why they they are necessary, I thought I made the point clear without using a sledgehammer but I guess I need to go further. “Need” has nothing to do with it. There is no “need” but, then, no one is arguing on the basis of need. Again, they are rarely used in criminal activity but they are used by many people safely for target shooting and hunting, both of which are legal. I’ve mentioned several times that magazine swaps take a minimal amount of time (not in my opinion but as demonstrated in many YouTube videos) so banning their use would accomplish practically nothing in achieving your fantasy scenario of rushing the crazy person between swaps, and banning them would unfairly make criminals out of lawful people.

You can keep arguing it makes sense but it doesn’t. At best, it is an uninspired non-solution to a problem that demands real solutions.
I was in the army and have fired automatic weapons. As far a I remember it takes time to switch clips. I dont ever recall getting banana clips from the armorer and I dont know why you would want them. Most of the time you are firing you are in the prone position (laying on your belly) and a longer clip would get in the way.

Exept for for basic training and one time at a range, i don't remember firing rock&roll (fully auto). Even with a machine gun they teach you to fire in 3 round bursts. Rock&roll is for supressive fire and nothing else. When you return your weapon to the armorer, it has to be clean. Rock&roll puts a lot of carbon on the pin and in places that are very hard to clean. If you fire rock&roll you will be still cleaning your weapon long after your. buddies have gone home.

Nothing good has ever happened when civilians have automatic weapons. The only folks that are willing to pay for them are jokers that want to play army. Join up if you want to see what it is really like.
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Old 12-18-2018, 06:05 PM
 
Location: Lakewood Ranch, FL
5,320 posts, read 8,176,287 times
Reputation: 6386
No one is talking about full auto weapons. They are enormously expensive and require a special tax stamp and background check. They can’t be sold to a buyer in the same way a non-class III gun can so there is no “gun show loophole”. That’s why I support the bumpstock ban. They essentially circumvent the NFA’s purpose. Honest people can argue that the NFA shouldn’t be constitutional but it is the law (and has been for a long time) so I think the bumpstocks should be off limits until that changes.

On the larger mags, their physical size relative to shooting from a prone position really has nothing to do with anything. If that’s what someone wants to do, they can do it with smaller mags. Target shooting hobbyists like not having to stop as frequently to reload a mag, and hog hunters (for example) can be far more effective with a larger mag.

Last edited by bbronston; 12-18-2018 at 06:27 PM..
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Old 12-18-2018, 06:26 PM
 
Location: Ormond Beach, FL
1,356 posts, read 1,395,706 times
Reputation: 1239
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbronston View Post
No one is talking about full auto weapons. They are enormously expensive and require a special tax stamp and background check. They can’t be sold to a buyer like a non-class III gun so there is no loophole. That’s why I support the bumpstock ban. They essentially circumvent the NFA’s purpose. Honest people can argue that the NFA shouldn’t be constitutional but it is the law (and has been for a long time) so I think the bumpstocks should be off limits until that changes.

On the larger mags, their physical size relative to shooting from a prone position really has nothing to do with anything. If that’s what someone wants to do, they can do it with smaller mags. Target shooting hobbyists like not having to stop as frequently to reload a mag, and hog hunters (for example) can be far more effective with a larger mag.
Target shooting hobbyists that like to shoot assault rifles - is another way of saying folks that want to play army. When I got out of the army I considered buying an AR15 since I was familiar with the weapon. I stopped considering it when I couldnt think of a constructive thing to do with it. Assault weapon shooting hobbist should join the army or become a reenactor. Leave assault weapons alone, at some time it may seem like a solution and you will be the wacko gunnig people down. Civilians dont have a need or use for assault weapons.
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