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Old 01-16-2019, 11:36 AM
 
2,589 posts, read 760,979 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottamemnon View Post
By that logic, when a school district goes bankrupt, should we invalidate every high school diploma they have awarded?.
...about the worst strawman I've heard

If Ford goes bankrupt...do you have to turn your car in?...or keep making payments?

You pay for a higher education....if you agree to borrow money to pay for that...you signed a contract

Student have rights....they have the right to take out that loan or not
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Old 01-16-2019, 11:57 AM
 
225 posts, read 98,169 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrie22 View Post
...about the worst strawman I've heard

If Ford goes bankrupt...do you have to turn your car in?...or keep making payments?

You pay for a higher education....if you agree to borrow money to pay for that...you signed a contract

Student have rights....they have the right to take out that loan or not
The fact that student loan debt cannot be discharged in bankruptcy is enough. They are not like any other form of debt. You cannot just run away from your obligations and wait it out like you can credit card and mortgage debt. When they want to buy a house, having a student loan in default will automatically eliminate them from consideration, no matter how long ago they defaulted. The interest and penalties continue to build, and at worst case the lender will get their money from the person's estate.

I did not have any student loans, but know many people who did who were not as lucky to have parents who saved. With the Baby Boomers and society in general telling GenX through Millenials that you cannot do anything without a degree, it soon became necessary. Hell I know most call centers require bachelors degrees now for barely above minimum wage work.

If this became common, the end result would be a large percentage of Americans would lose their degrees in the next downturn once they default. The companies would then replace them with H1B workers from India, whose degrees cost next to nothing and often are not worth the paper they are printed on.
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Old 01-16-2019, 12:30 PM
 
2,589 posts, read 760,979 times
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so you're saying we have a H1B immigration problem too...I totally agree

Bottom line...they took out a loan..with specific rules and qualifications...to buy a product...degree/education
...don't pay the loan....repossess the product

Schools have made theses loans so easy to get...they can fill up classrooms with garbage classes...that's not medical, but loans are the problem all around..and get away with it
...students defaulting on those loans..have made them high risk loans in theory...and made other students pay more

...and knowing the conditions of the loans...have made lenders pass them out like after dinner mints...with little or no oversight

it's a vicious circle
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Old 01-16-2019, 02:15 PM
 
225 posts, read 98,169 times
Reputation: 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrie22 View Post
so you're saying we have a H1B immigration problem too...I totally agree

Bottom line...they took out a loan..with specific rules and qualifications...to buy a product...degree/education
...don't pay the loan....repossess the product

Schools have made theses loans so easy to get...they can fill up classrooms with garbage classes...that's not medical, but loans are the problem all around..and get away with it
...students defaulting on those loans..have made them high risk loans in theory...and made other students pay more

...and knowing the conditions of the loans...have made lenders pass them out like after dinner mints...with little or no oversight

it's a vicious circle
Would we give the degree back once they are out of default? I would be less opposed if the student was out from under the debt. Since today they would lose their degree and the increased income it affords, and still have all the debt if you repossessed the product.

Then there is the fact that they already have a paper diploma. For most companies that would be the fallback to prove the degree, they wouldn't go to the school. The schools would probably refuse to comply with a deletion order from a collection agency anyway as they are not often extreme right wing in their opinions.

To do this you would have to create a central education library which records everyone's education and loan status. That is a nightmare that I could never imagine a Republican(or most Democrats right of Marx) wishing on citizens of the US. Companies would rapidly move to weeding out people based on grades. Hiring requirements are already pretty insane at most companies so they can hire H1B workers instead. Its one more step to the social grading score that China is doing now.
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Old 01-16-2019, 03:32 PM
 
10,576 posts, read 10,792,849 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrie22 View Post
Well gee, might as well side with everyone that defaults on a loan....again, you can say the same thing about every loan
Except the for profit industry and the higher ed industry in general charges way too much for what is a questionable product.

The only place where prices have increased worst than healthcare is higher ed.

https://www.theatlantic.com/business...th-care/23705/
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Old 01-17-2019, 07:59 AM
 
1,604 posts, read 1,051,242 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chopchop0 View Post
Except the for profit industry and the higher ed industry in general charges way too much for what is a questionable product.

The only place where prices have increased worst than healthcare is higher ed.

https://www.theatlantic.com/business...th-care/23705/

Yep, it's one hell of a system we've allowed to take hold in this country. The federal government guarantees exorbitant loans for a population who barely manages to graduate half of its post-secondary applicants, and of those a startling percentage either don't go on to work in their field of study or find menial labor due to obtaining either undesirable or unaccredited "degrees." Add to that the nearly ubiquitous far-left indoctrination on campuses mandated and subsequently reinforced by lunatic snowflake student social cults and an abundance of tenured professors willing to grade-down dissent and independent thinking, and it's no wonder why so-called higher education is in the proverbial gutter.
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Old 01-17-2019, 08:09 AM
 
10,576 posts, read 10,792,849 times
Reputation: 5220
Quote:
Originally Posted by OpinionInOcala View Post
Yep, it's one hell of a system we've allowed to take hold in this country. The federal government guarantees exorbitant loans for a population who barely manages to graduate half of its post-secondary applicants, and of those a startling percentage either don't go on to work in their field of study or find menial labor due to obtaining either undesirable or unaccredited "degrees." Add to that the nearly ubiquitous far-left indoctrination on campuses mandated and subsequently reinforced by lunatic snowflake student social cults and an abundance of tenured professors willing to grade-down dissent and independent thinking, and it's no wonder why so-called higher education is in the proverbial gutter.
Except the far right is complicit in this problem. Just look at Trump's pick for SOE, Betsy devos, who's been a huge ally of the for profit and student loan industry

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/brown...d-of-students/

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/26/u...-colleges.html
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Old 01-17-2019, 08:12 AM
 
1,604 posts, read 1,051,242 times
Reputation: 3205
Quote:
Originally Posted by chopchop0 View Post
Except the far right is complicit in this problem. Just look at Trump's pick for SOE, Betsy devos, who's been a huge ally of the for profit and student loan industry

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/brown...d-of-students/

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/26/u...-colleges.html

I agree that the right-wing is (and has been) complicit in the problem. For decades elected leadership has collectively failed us. And don't even get me started on blithering Betsy, haha.
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