[sunrico90]

Originally Posted by adam.g.harpool

I currently call South Florida my home, and plan to remain there; but I was born and spent most of my youth in the cultural heart of North Florida, the Panhandle. In the context of this discussion, I think that it is very important for people to understand that the differences between North Florida and South Florida are not the same types of differences seen between rural and urban areas in other states; say, the difference between Atlanta and Valdosta, or between Chicago and Danville.

No - the differences are FAR, far greater.

You have one region - North Florida - where the economy has always and likely will always be agrarian; utterly void of ethnic, religious, and cultural diversity; where people trace their roots back to cracker-run, crooked redneck shanty towns for generations, rarely leave these little impoverished fiefdoms, and fiercely distrust "Yankees" who relocate into said fiefdoms; the knowledge economy is unheard of; and where, despite all of the attacks on "big government welfare", virtually all of the counties are net receivers of tax revenue and you find the highest percentages of people depending on social services. A large swath of the Panhandle has, in fact, been nicknamed the "welfare belt."

South Florida is fundamentally different because it does not share a common history or culture with North Florida, even though they happen to share the same (arbitrary) state boundaries. Even going as far back as the late 19th Century, South Florida (sparsely populated then) was virtually devoid of slavery and a majority of its residents supported the Northern cause during the Civil War. Its economy was fueled initially by tourism and has diversified today to be the largest and most dynamic in the state, fueled largely by services, international trade, and the FIRE industries. We are wildly diverse - by race, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, geographic origin - and damn proud of it. We are one of the epicenters of the knowledge economy, and Miami is the only "world city" in the state of Florida. We are liberal Democrats and they are conservative Republicans. And, one of the most contentious points beyond the discussion of splitting the state, we pay the taxes to subsidize the North Floridians who really want nothing to do with us (just as, to be sure, most of us want nothing to do with them - except that we're the ones footing the bill for their little follies, like the unneeded and egregiously expensive new airport for Panama City/Bay County, which is going to be largely subsidized by South Florida taxpayers.)

So essentially, we already have two states operating within the political boundaries of one. And I cannot see any problem with splitting them apart, seeing as this would make both North Floridians and South Floridians content. Even if we just included the 3 mainland counties and the Keys, South Florida would still be the 19th largest state - and I hardly think we would have problems supporting our own services. We could elect politicians who much more accurately reflect our values instead of right-wing nutcases like Mel Martinez and Jeb Bush. And I would just love to see the slick North Florida cracker politicians like Cliff Stearns who bash people down here pay for the needs of their impoverished, welfare-dependent, uneducated constituencies without our help - good luck, and good riddance!

The Panhandle has changed with a large Aerospace Industry in key locations supporting DOD needs. Very secured and wages are competitive with other states...

[adam.g.harpool]

Originally Posted by sunrico90

The Panhandle has changed with a large Aerospace Industry in key locations supporting DOD needs. Very secured and wages are competitive with other states...

I'm not trying to pick an argument here - it's clear we have very different views on this region, which is fine - but the Panhandle is still an agrarian region. Drive from Jacksonville to Pensacola on I-10 and you will see plenty of cotton fields and pine forests, very few skyscrapers, factories, or industrial parks. I lived there until 2005, and it is not a region full of white-collar engineers. That's just not true. Whatever nascent industries that have materialized in the region are highly localized - nearly all in Tallahassee or Pensacola, a few in Panama City - and do not affect the fact that 1) Wages there are the lowest in Florida and 2) Educational attainment there is the lowest in Florida. In general, North Floridians are very hostile to growth and "outsiders." And oftentimes economic development in that region - my mind again jumps to the decade-delayed Panama City Int'l Airport - is made feasible by nothing more than a redistribution of South Florida wealth.

[Strel]

Originally Posted by Staykay

Actually, it's the representatives of the north, northwest, and north-central counties who vote as a block to keep things this way. Our reps are out-voted on this issue. It's the people who live in north Florida who vote for the north Florida representatives. Who needs to learn more about government?


You do.

So the Florida House isn't elected based on population?

And which end of the state has a much higher population?

I think I know at least that much.

[Strel]

Originally Posted by doaks

Please---South Florida is the land of the haves and have nots! Believe me there are A LOT of have nots. Good luck with getting money from the "friendly folks" in Boca!

Really - it is no accident that affordable housing can't get approved in Broward County.

[compelled to reply]

Originally Posted by adam.g.harpool

I currently call South Florida my home, and plan to remain there; but I was born and spent most of my youth in the cultural heart of North Florida, the Panhandle. In the context of this discussion, I think that it is very important for people to understand that the differences between North Florida and South Florida are not the same types of differences seen between rural and urban areas in other states; say, the difference between Atlanta and Valdosta, or between Chicago and Danville.

No - the differences are FAR, far greater.

You have one region - North Florida - where the economy has always and likely will always be agrarian; utterly void of ethnic, religious, and cultural diversity; where people trace their roots back to cracker-run, crooked redneck shanty towns for generations, rarely leave these little impoverished fiefdoms, and fiercely distrust "Yankees" who relocate into said fiefdoms; the knowledge economy is unheard of; and where, despite all of the attacks on "big government welfare", virtually all of the counties are net receivers of tax revenue and you find the highest percentages of people depending on social services. A large swath of the Panhandle has, in fact, been nicknamed the "welfare belt."

South Florida is fundamentally different because it does not share a common history or culture with North Florida, even though they happen to share the same (arbitrary) state boundaries. Even going as far back as the late 19th Century, South Florida (sparsely populated then) was virtually devoid of slavery and a majority of its residents supported the Northern cause during the Civil War. Its economy was fueled initially by tourism and has diversified today to be the largest and most dynamic in the state, fueled largely by services, international trade, and the FIRE industries. We are wildly diverse - by race, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, geographic origin - and damn proud of it. We are one of the epicenters of the knowledge economy, and Miami is the only "world city" in the state of Florida. We are liberal Democrats and they are conservative Republicans. And, one of the most contentious points beyond the discussion of splitting the state, we pay the taxes to subsidize the North Floridians who really want nothing to do with us (just as, to be sure, most of us want nothing to do with them - except that we're the ones footing the bill for their little follies, like the unneeded and egregiously expensive new airport for Panama City/Bay County, which is going to be largely subsidized by South Florida taxpayers.)

So essentially, we already have two states operating within the political boundaries of one. And I cannot see any problem with splitting them apart, seeing as this would make both North Floridians and South Floridians content. Even if we just included the 3 mainland counties and the Keys, South Florida would still be the 19th largest state - and I hardly think we would have problems supporting our own services. We could elect politicians who much more accurately reflect our values instead of right-wing nutcases like Mel Martinez and Jeb Bush. And I would just love to see the slick North Florida cracker politicians like Cliff Stearns who bash people down here pay for the needs of their impoverished, welfare-dependent, uneducated constituencies without our help - good luck, and good riddance!

South Florida didn't turn "liberal" until the late 80s and was one of the last places in the entire US to desegregate.

[TANaples]

Originally Posted by tallrick

I heard that some Broward mayor wants the tri-county area to be its own state. This seems like a good idea, group the worst part of Florida into its own state and let the rest of Florida be. Anyone else heard of this?

not South Florida. Unfortunately, the south golf coast has nothing in common with the southeast coast. I say unfortunately because I like the east coast better myself. You want just a very small part of Florida to become it's own state?

It will never happen. It's far too small a geograhpic area to begin with. I am from NYC. For DECADES, Staten Island has been trying to seceed from NYC and become part of NJ. At least they have a case to make. Staten Island is an ISLAND. It is closer to New Jersey. Yet, that will never happen either.

I really don't have a dog in this race. I could care less if the entire state seceeded from the union and became it's own country. It probably should. If it ever came to a vote, I would not vote at all. You all can do what you wish.

[ryanstartedthefire]

This won't happen. From what I understand, it was an outlandish statement to show the absurdity of the tax situation. It's been months and there was been little to no movement on the issue so I doubt it'll happen. I grew up in the South Florida area (Broward and Palm Beach) and moved to the Tampa area 2 years ago. It was a big culture shock. There are certain things I love and miss about South Florida but there are also lots of differences in this area which I enjoy. I've toyed with the idea of moving back now and again, but it's going to take a lot to get me to leave her. I do enjoy this area.

[GloryB]

I don't think this will ever happen.....but I'll bet North Florida is all for it.

[Strel]

Originally Posted by GloryB

I don't think this will ever happen.....but I'll bet North Florida is all for it.

I haven't seen a single person from North Florida argue against it.

[DailyJournalist]

Originally Posted by Strel

I haven't seen a single person from North Florida argue against it.

Florida would colapse if it lost South Florida. Most of the money, wealth, and jobs are located in South Florida. If you think the Florida economy is in the gutter now, if so Florida tax dollars left Florida would have to declare bankruptcy.