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Old 04-30-2021, 04:54 PM
 
2,175 posts, read 1,399,192 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beachmouse View Post
At some point, the state is doomed. If people move down here without seeing hurricane damage video, then they didn't do their research properly. The big question is the when- does the worst of it start happening 10 years from now or 200 or 500 years from now? You roll the dice, assume that there's at least another 50 good years in the place before it all falls apart, and in the mean time, you enjoy all the amazing stuff the state has to offer, and there's a lot of cool stuff here you don't find elsewhere in the USA, before that tipping point comes.

It's the Zen of living in the moment and detaching from material stuff to enjoy great experiences while you're here.

I'll gladly admit that we were looking at investment property in Florida in 2018 but Hurricane Michael spooked us pretty badly so that got back-burnered. And am now really glad we didn't because of the covid eviction protections. New plans is to not increase real estate exposure here and move Out West in a couple years to a hurricane-free area that seems to be in a good spot in terms of water rights, and then roll the dice that the Yellowstone volcano doesn't decide it's finally time to go. Given the number of near misses we've had from hurricanes that have hit the northern Gulf Coast, I'm good with taking my chances regarding the volcano, which is a far lower probability thing.
Plus the claims about the sea level rising have been posted for years and .......... humm; haven't heard anything yet that is a real example and I have family living in various parts of FL.
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Old 04-30-2021, 05:15 PM
 
Location: Free State of Florida
19,999 posts, read 7,946,685 times
Reputation: 14758
The sea level is rising, but the Florida land mass may be rising even faster.

Florida was once under the sea, but it rose up and out of it. Can anyone prove its not still rising?

That could explain why the sea level is rising, but we have not seen any evidence of it in Florida in our lifetimes.

All we've seen is some beach erosion in some places after storms.

So, I've explained why nearly everyone who has posted in this thread is right.
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Old 04-30-2021, 05:22 PM
 
Location: Not too far East of the Everglades
10,955 posts, read 3,017,480 times
Reputation: 2844
Nothing will happen in our Lifetimes, but that is my take and I am staying Put. you people do as you wish !
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Old 05-01-2021, 07:34 AM
 
11,472 posts, read 8,948,623 times
Reputation: 7049
Quote:
Originally Posted by beach43ofus View Post
The sea level is rising, but the Florida land mass may be rising even faster.

Florida was once under the sea, but it rose up and out of it. Can anyone prove its not still rising?

That could explain why the sea level is rising, but we have not seen any evidence of it in Florida in our lifetimes.

All we've seen is some beach erosion in some places after storms.

So, I've explained why nearly everyone who has posted in this thread is right.

Once again, you post a blatant falsehood. I'm curious. Do you ever do any research before posting statements, or are you all-in as a Big Lie propagandist?


<<While it’s true that most of Florida’s coastline — like much of the Eastern Seaboard—is subsiding, data indicate that for much of the state, the rate of that subsidence pales in comparison to the rate of climate change-driven sea-level rise.>>


https://www.theinvadingsea.com/2020/...t-of-flooding/


Subsidence on reclaimed wetlands may be a particular risk in Florida.


<< In Miami Beach, subsidence at rates of 1–3 mm/yr occurred in a small portion of the territory, mainly in parts of the city built on reclaimed wetlands.>>


https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...64569119309470


See the "Vulnerability to Sea Level Rise" map here:


https://www.gps.gov/cgsic/meetings/2019/wdowinski.pdf


The above presentation also attributes much subsidence in Florida sediment compaction and "overburden."


If you had much of a memory or logic capability, or even paid any attention to scientific expertise, you would know that Florida in the past was underwater due to much higher sea levels, not a land uprising ().


Please pay attention:


<<
For the past million years, atmospheric carbon dioxide fluctuated between 180 parts per million (ppm) and 280 ppm about every 100,000 years, and, in concert, temperature cooled and warmed and sea level went down and up 330 feet or more.


These natural changes in carbon dioxide, temperature and sea level occurred over thousands of years as Earth changed how she presented herself to the Sun – cycles of a more and less circular orbit and changes in the amount and direction of the tilt of her axis to the sun.


For the first time in the paleo-record, carbon dioxide levels have risen by more than 110 ppm and within only 100 years because of our burning fossil fuels. The overall human-generated rise in carbon dioxide from 280 to 410 ppm is more than double the 180-280 ppm post-glacial increase which drove 420 feet of sea-level rise in response to natural warming and ice melt – and it has happened 100 times faster!...


Earth’s rate of global mean sea level (GMSL) rise doubled after 1930 as our warming ocean began expanding. Since 1990, we have had an additional quadrupling of the rate as accelerating polar ice melt has kicked in.


Globally we are up to about 4.6 millimeters rise per year, a rate of 1.5 feet per century. Accelerating ice melt is now doubling this rate every seven to eight years. That will get our coasts in trouble very quickly.


South Florida’s rate of sea-level rise has been a bit faster than GMSL in the past and is predicted become significantly faster in the future.>>



South Florida’s sea-level threat is worse than you think | Opinion - South Florida Sun Sentinel - South Florida Sun-Sentinel



You and others in this thread preposterously argue that we've seen no evidence of sea level rise in your lifetimes. How very disingenuous!


E.g., the table "Accelerating Sea Level Rise" shows 4-6 mm (over 1/8th to almost 1/4 inch per year) of sea level rise annually in some Florida locations. The presentation also shows several examples of inundation.



https://www.gps.gov/cgsic/meetings/2019/wdowinski.pdf


Volusia County beach inundation:


https://www.theinvadingsea.com/2019/...is-threatened/


Florida Keys:


<<How can they with two Key Largo neighborhoods having endured flooded streets for most of the past three months? The flooding arrived with autumn’s king tides and didn’t drain because the surrounding sea is so high.>>


https://www.theinvadingsea.com/2020/03/19/yes-the-land-is-slowly-sinking-in-parts-of-florida-but-the-sea-is-rising-much-faster-and-poses-a-far-greater-threat-of-flooding/


<<
ust over 90 days passed before residents at Stillwright Point in Key Largo were able to stand in the middle of roads and streets without water touching their feet in late November 2019. It all stemmed from a king tide that left roads and streets inundated months prior. At times, water on roads exceeded 1-2 feet, and it caused hardship for elderly and handicapped residents. Fast forward to Sept. 19, 2020, and tidal flooding is back inside the community at MM 105, bayside. On Sept. 22, the Keys Weekly hopped in resident Emilie Stewart’s Jeep during late morning, which was low tide, to view the various streets that were under saltwater.>>


https://keysweekly.com/42/tidal-flooding-unfolds-in-key-largo-community/




Last edited by WRnative; 05-01-2021 at 07:58 AM..
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Old 05-01-2021, 01:35 PM
 
Location: West Florida
15,281 posts, read 12,605,823 times
Reputation: 20686
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
Once again, you post a blatant falsehood. I'm curious. Do you ever do any research before posting statements, or are you all-in as a Big Lie propagandist?
.g., the table "Accelerating Sea Level Rise" shows 4-6 mm (over 1/8th to almost 1/4 inch per year) of sea level rise annually in some Florida locations. The presentation also shows several examples of]
Okay...

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
Sea level rise was 1.5 inches in 2019, according to NOAA, per the Palm Beach Post. This was over 10 percent of the median sea level rise nationally of 1.1 feet since 1920, according to the following article. One consequence is increased days of high tide flooding.

<<The yearly rate of high tide flooding is more than twice that from just 20 years ago. Sea level rise broke a record last year with a median ascent nationally of 1.1 feet as compared to 1920 levels, according to NOAA.

That sea level bloat is also 1.5 inches higher than it was in 2018.>>

https://www.theinvadingsea.com/2020/...er-and-higher/
So which one is it? In another thread, you got debunked over your nonsensical claim that sea level is rising at over an inch per year. Here you’re saying it’s 1/8 of an inch. Make up your mind. The level of stupidity in your posts is baffling. Then again, it’s what happens when one just copy/pastes random babble from any article they can find in google without doing proper research.

Do YOU research before posting? Clearly not.

Last edited by Arcenal813; 05-01-2021 at 02:05 PM..
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Old 05-01-2021, 02:44 PM
 
11,472 posts, read 8,948,623 times
Reputation: 7049
My post 114:



Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
Once again, you post a blatant falsehood. I'm curious. Do you ever do any research before posting statements, or are you all-in as a Big Lie propagandist?


<<While it’s true that most of Florida’s coastline — like much of the Eastern Seaboard—is subsiding, data indicate that for much of the state, the rate of that subsidence pales in comparison to the rate of climate change-driven sea-level rise.>>


https://www.theinvadingsea.com/2020/...t-of-flooding/


Subsidence on reclaimed wetlands may be a particular risk in Florida.


<< In Miami Beach, subsidence at rates of 1–3 mm/yr occurred in a small portion of the territory, mainly in parts of the city built on reclaimed wetlands.>>


https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...64569119309470


See the "Vulnerability to Sea Level Rise" map here:


https://www.gps.gov/cgsic/meetings/2019/wdowinski.pdf


The above presentation also attributes much subsidence in Florida sediment compaction and "overburden."


If you had much of a memory or logic capability, or even paid any attention to scientific expertise, you would know that Florida in the past was underwater due to much higher sea levels, not a land uprising ().


Please pay attention:


<<
For the past million years, atmospheric carbon dioxide fluctuated between 180 parts per million (ppm) and 280 ppm about every 100,000 years, and, in concert, temperature cooled and warmed and sea level went down and up 330 feet or more.


These natural changes in carbon dioxide, temperature and sea level occurred over thousands of years as Earth changed how she presented herself to the Sun – cycles of a more and less circular orbit and changes in the amount and direction of the tilt of her axis to the sun.


For the first time in the paleo-record, carbon dioxide levels have risen by more than 110 ppm and within only 100 years because of our burning fossil fuels. The overall human-generated rise in carbon dioxide from 280 to 410 ppm is more than double the 180-280 ppm post-glacial increase which drove 420 feet of sea-level rise in response to natural warming and ice melt – and it has happened 100 times faster!...


Earth’s rate of global mean sea level (GMSL) rise doubled after 1930 as our warming ocean began expanding. Since 1990, we have had an additional quadrupling of the rate as accelerating polar ice melt has kicked in.


Globally we are up to about 4.6 millimeters rise per year, a rate of 1.5 feet per century. Accelerating ice melt is now doubling this rate every seven to eight years. That will get our coasts in trouble very quickly.


South Florida’s rate of sea-level rise has been a bit faster than GMSL in the past and is predicted become significantly faster in the future.>>



South Florida’s sea-level threat is worse than you think | Opinion - South Florida Sun Sentinel - South Florida Sun-Sentinel



You and others in this thread preposterously argue that we've seen no evidence of sea level rise in your lifetimes. How very disingenuous!


E.g., the table "Accelerating Sea Level Rise" shows 4-6 mm (over 1/8th to almost 1/4 inch per year) of sea level rise annually in some Florida locations. The presentation also shows several examples of inundation.



https://www.gps.gov/cgsic/meetings/2019/wdowinski.pdf


Volusia County beach inundation:


https://www.theinvadingsea.com/2019/...is-threatened/


Florida Keys:


<<How can they with two Key Largo neighborhoods having endured flooded streets for most of the past three months? The flooding arrived with autumn’s king tides and didn’t drain because the surrounding sea is so high.>>


https://www.theinvadingsea.com/2020/03/19/yes-the-land-is-slowly-sinking-in-parts-of-florida-but-the-sea-is-rising-much-faster-and-poses-a-far-greater-threat-of-flooding/


<<
ust over 90 days passed before residents at Stillwright Point in Key Largo were able to stand in the middle of roads and streets without water touching their feet in late November 2019. It all stemmed from a king tide that left roads and streets inundated months prior. At times, water on roads exceeded 1-2 feet, and it caused hardship for elderly and handicapped residents. Fast forward to Sept. 19, 2020, and tidal flooding is back inside the community at MM 105, bayside. On Sept. 22, the Keys Weekly hopped in resident Emilie Stewart’s Jeep during late morning, which was low tide, to view the various streets that were under saltwater.>>


https://keysweekly.com/42/tidal-flooding-unfolds-in-key-largo-community/

Your post 115:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcenal352 View Post
Okay...



So which one is it? In another thread, you got debunked over your nonsensical claim that sea level is rising at over an inch per year. Here you’re saying it’s 1/8 of an inch. Make up your mind. The level of stupidity in your posts is baffling. Then again, it’s what happens when one just copy/pastes random babble from any article they can find in google without doing proper research.

I'm not an expert on sea level rise. So, unlike you, I don't pull statements out of thin air and then claim that they trump NASA, NOAA, and scientific analysis by reputable scientists.


So you've repeatedly argued in this forum in many threads that there is no sea level rise, let alone sea level rise acceleration. To support your assertion, you post links to ocean buoys with NO posted data nor any analysis. You don't even supply the data from your link that you believe proves your assertion.


Posting inaccurate statements, with no actual support, is worthless drivel. It's climate change denier "Big Lie" propaganda.


So what is the most authoritative data on sea level rise? It is NASA satellite altimeter measurements which date back to 1993. Here's what NASA says about sea level rise.


NASA measures Global Mean Sea Level (GMSL). Note that is the mean level for the entire planet. Localized sea level, as repeatedly explained can be much higher.



<<Global mean sea level provides an integrative measure of the state of the climate system, encompassing both the ocean and cryosphere (ice covered portions of Earth), and it can be viewed as an important indicator of what is happening to the climate in the present and what may happen in the future.>>


Here's what NASA says it has measured since 1993.


<<Changes in GMSL have been measured by satellite altimeters for the past 27 years. With the launch of the Sentinel-6/Michael Freilich satellite in 2020, this record will soon surpass three decades. The rate of GMSL rise from 1993 to present has been measured at 3.3 millimeters per year, and there are indications that the rate of GMSL rise has increased during the satellite altimeter record. Other systems in the sea-level observation network provide estimates of the individual process contributing to GMSL rise.>>


https://sealevel.nasa.gov/understand...level/overview


Note that thermal expansion of the ocean since 2005 has accounted for 1.3 mm of the annual expansion GLOBALLY, according to the chart at the above link. Obviously, thermal expansion is much greater in the oceans surrounding Florida than in Arctic Ocean.



This 3.3 mm (over 1/8th inch) per year measurement is the most authoritative statement about GMSL available. This rate of sea level rise rise would equal over 3.5 inches cumulative since 1993. Obviously, it totally refutes your repeated false claims that there is no sea level rise. Are YOU going to continue to claim that there is no sea level rise???



Note that the 3.3 mm is the mean average since 1993.


If you scroll over the interactive chart here, the last measurement is as of 1/11/21 showing 98 mm of sea level rise since the beginning of the satellite altimeter measurements. On 1/15/11, the measurement was 48.6. The 10-year increase is 49.4 mm, or annual average of 4.94 mm (or over 3/16 inches) per year.



https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/sea-level/


The presentation in post 114 was prepared by Shimon Wdowinski, Florida International University Professor, Department of Earth and Environment. His localized estimates for Florida, showing sea level rise rates for Florida locations higher than NASA global estimates isn't surprising given the greater thermal expansion impact in Florida's oceans and shifting gravitational forces as mass decreases in the polar regions due to ice imelt.


Sea level rise expert Harold Wanless, Univ. of Miami, quantifies the localized Florida impacts of thermal expansion and gravitational force changes here:


<<
Most disconcerting, half of the excess heat buildup in the oceans has occurred since 1997. Our still rapidly increasing greenhouse gas levels, because of rapidly increasing global population and industrialization, are making global warming more and more serious and less reversible every day we keep using fossil fuels.


Earth’s rate of global mean sea level (GMSL) rise doubled after 1930 as our warming ocean began expanding. Since 1990, we have had an additional quadrupling of the rate as accelerating polar ice melt has kicked in....


Every section of coast has regional influences that add to or subtract from the GMSL rise. For South Florida, our future “total relative sea level” rise will include an addition of 15 to 20 percent from projected slowing of the Florida Current/Gulf Stream and 20 percent to 52 percent from redistribution of ocean mass as the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets melt.


Their huge ice masses pull water toward them. As they melt and their mass diminishes, their gravitational attraction diminishes and ocean water redistributes.


This means that South Florida should add 35 percent to 72 percent additional rise to the GMSL projections. The total relative sea-level rise for South Florida by 2046 could thus be 2.7 to 3.4 feet, and within 50 years could be 5.7 to 7.2 feet.>>

South Florida’s sea-level threat is worse than you think | Opinion - South Florida Sun Sentinel - South Florida Sun-Sentinel


Note that these sea level rise numbers are not my claims, as, unlike you, I am merely reporting NASA data and the analyses of experts and not making up unsubstantiated claims. Prof. Wdowinski's localized Florida data likely comes from buoy readings, but the source is not cited in the presentation. The source likely is cited in a research paper from which the presentation is derived.

Last edited by WRnative; 05-01-2021 at 02:57 PM..
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Old 05-01-2021, 03:13 PM
 
Location: West Florida
15,281 posts, read 12,605,823 times
Reputation: 20686
For crying out loud, YOU CLAIMED THAT NOAA SAID THE RISE WAS 1.5 inches per year.

I posted, from THE NOAA ITSELF, that it’s 1/8 of an inch.

What in the world are you talking about? I literally posted an article FROM THE NOAA!!!

Damn.

Last edited by Arcenal813; 05-01-2021 at 03:28 PM..
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Old 05-01-2021, 04:57 PM
 
Location: West Florida
15,281 posts, read 12,605,823 times
Reputation: 20686
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post


So you've repeatedly argued in this forum in many threads that there is no sea level rise, let alone sea level rise acceleration. To support your assertion, you post links to ocean buoys with NO posted data nor any analysis. You don't even supply the data from your link that you believe proves your assertion..
Wtf??? When have I ever said that? Or posted “links to ocean buoys???”

The meth game in Ohio is strong, isn’t it..?
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Old 05-01-2021, 06:00 PM
 
26,012 posts, read 17,021,087 times
Reputation: 9469
Is this still going on?
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Old 05-01-2021, 07:09 PM
 
Location: US
24,155 posts, read 24,725,680 times
Reputation: 19326
Some people think they know more than the big banks lol.
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