Welcome to Florida - "Time" Magazine (Miami, Orlando: mortgage, environment)

[sunrico90]

Originally Posted by surfer boy

"and that would point to the residents, not the people moving here."


HUH??????? Are you saying Natives are the cause and not the "newer residents" from (the restless masses) that are Brooklyn, Cleveland, and Havana, and Port-au-Prince?

We really need to be careful how we answer this question:

Are you saying Natives are the cause and not the "newer residents" from (the restless masses) that are Brooklyn, Cleveland, and Havana, and Port-au-Prince?

Many of those non natives are related to natives that relocated to Florida because at one time Fl was the golden state. The place to retire, one of my cousins from NYC purchased land in south Miami about 20 years ago because she wanted to retire in Florida, she was 20 years old at that time.

What about the ones that double or triple the profit on their home sales after the hurricanes and drove the prices out of reach. Purchased damaged homes for 1/3 of the value and sold for a superior gain.

Florida has problems, many are also reflected in every other state of this nation. But we should ask What are we doing to fix it? What is my role in this problem? Should I be looking on way to better my community, my town, my city or just complain and continue to be part of the problem.

I'm one that believes in accountability and ownership. I'm one that want to help the area and we are making it a bit better. I'm one that will be here to see progress once again.

Yes, is difficult no question about it, but is going to take time to get out of this situation. Read on the other forums and you can see the same problems.

We are not allowed...

[runswithscissors]

Originally Posted by sunrico90

We really need to be careful how we answer this question:

Are you saying Natives are the cause and not the "newer residents" from (the restless masses) that are Brooklyn, Cleveland, and Havana, and Port-au-Prince?

Many of those non natives are related to natives that relocated to Florida because at one time Fl was the golden state. The place to retire, one of my cousins from NYC purchased land in south Miami about 20 years ago because she wanted to retire in Florida, she was 20 years old at that time.

What about the ones that double or triple the profit on their home sales after the hurricanes and drove the prices out of reach. Purchased damaged homes for 1/3 of the value and sold for a superior gain.

Florida has problems, many are also reflected in every other state of this nation. But we should ask What are we doing to fix it? What is my role in this problem? Should I be looking on way to better my community, my town, my city or just complain and continue to be part of the problem.

I'm one that believes in accountability and ownership. I'm one that want to help the area and we are making it a bit better. I'm one that will be here to see progress once again.

Yes, is difficult no question about it, but is going to take time to get out of this situation. Read on the other forums and you can see the same problems.

We are not allowed...

I agree with you about the answer being tricky. The author, however, was referring to restless masses throughout the 20 th century with the advent of water technology, bug spray and A/C not the recent events with the boom and bust.

And a very good point, with children of former "influxers" moving here, I am one of them, my father came here in 1962 and my gmthr's brother at depression era.

I do not consider investors and flippers to be restless masses nor clearly the element that the author was referring to.

NOW Florida is suing Countrywide and the politician bragging about it on the radio yesterday said "they promised they would check for income and credit worthiness (or something like that) and they didn't".

OK well HOW MANY YEARS AGO WAS THAT? Like started around 20002-3? And Florida never thought to even check that and took them at their word until now? (like other states). And now we get to pay for the lawsuit too.

I find it interesting Northerns NJ/Ny'ers are so targeted. Something about our "attitudes". I really in 50 years of coming to South Florida would not have expected that. Luckily we bring our bankbooks usually too. And our education.

This report from 2002 (class of 2000) says :

• Florida’s public schools had the lowest overall graduation rate in the nation with 55% of students graduating
• New Jersey had the highest overall graduation rate with 87%

Civic Report 31 | Public School Graduation Rates in the United States

[TANaples]

Originally Posted by runswithscissors

I agree with you about the answer being tricky. The author, however, was referring to restless masses throughout the 20 th century with the advent of water technology, bug spray and A/C not the recent events with the boom and bust.

And a very good point, with children of former "influxers" moving here, I am one of them, my father came here in 1962 and my gmthr's brother at depression era.

I do not consider investors and flippers to be restless masses nor clearly the element that the author was referring to.

NOW Florida is suing Countrywide and the politician bragging about it on the radio yesterday said "they promised they would check for income and credit worthiness (or something like that) and they didn't".

OK well HOW MANY YEARS AGO WAS THAT? Like started around 20002-3? And Florida never thought to even check that and took them at their word until now? (like other states). And now we get to pay for the lawsuit too.

I find it interesting Northerns NJ/Ny'ers are so targeted. Something about our "attitudes". I really in 50 years of coming to South Florida would not have expected that. Luckily we bring our bankbooks usually too. And our education.

This report from 2002 (class of 2000) says :

• Florida’s public schools had the lowest overall graduation rate in the nation with 55% of students graduating
• New Jersey had the highest overall graduation rate with 87%

Civic Report 31 | Public School Graduation Rates in the United States

NJ is ranked 4th in the country. The rest of the 5 top states are all in New England.

Click on the methods and you can see how they came to their findings.



Smartest State 2006-2007

[compelled to reply]

Florida is a mediocre but not-as-bad-as-they-make-you-think 29th place (USED to be 49th, sorry it's not anymore), and yes most people are aware that the NE leads the country in public education. Florida schools are nowhere near the worst anymore, but still distant from being something great.

[BlueWillowPlate]

Originally Posted by runswithscissors

HOWEVER, imo, the people who "own the state" fell down on the job. They passively sat by as all these phenomena occurred.

I think a lot of locals actually embraced a hell of a lot of money.
There was no passivity about it.
But what goes up, must come down.

City being destroyed by college break? Put a stop to it.

This is actually taking place in Panama City. People are waking up.

No decent jobs? Ditto, yell about it. Dump your representatives etc.

This is going to be a little bit trickier.

And the worst thing, the real estate mess, caused by greed of politicians and bankers while the financially unsophisticated believed the fairy tale that you can make optional payments on your mortgage and add the interest to the back end and everything will be great. (not unlike other states but statistically significantly the "worst" by rank 1 or 2.
So although I agree the masses suck, apathy is worse IMO.

I am not going to make a blanket comment about "the masses" but I will say that a lot of people are tired at the end of the day, and only have enough energy to help their kids with their homework and then put on HGTV.

And given the dropout rates in Fl, it's a good thing that someone with a bit of resources is coming here otherwise the whole thing would be dropouts and gang bangers with the other "normal people" struggling for some normalcy. imo.

Well, as of 2006, California has the most drop-outs: 25% to Florida's 15%. It will be interesting to see how everything all turns out.

[surfer boy]

Originally Posted by compelled to reply

Well clearly they are superior to third worlders from New York and New Jersey...

OK, so now the superior native Floridians can become a part of the "restless masses" and ruin North Carolina. The last thing Florida needs to improve is natives who turn their noses on their own state.

I hope it doesnt happen to NC too. Funny thing is, many of the Floridians I've met in NC, and there are a lot believe me, really embraced the slower lifestyle, and enjoyed being there. They were just normal people... The people I am talking about that are/have moved to FL recently are more trashy, in-your-face, rude, and drive terribly. I didnt see those people (Floridians now NC'ers) up in NC. They were much friendlier and spoke English. In Orlando, this isnt the case, as I am sure S FL is in the same boat as ORL. I think most in NC would also agree about the Floridians moving up there, they just seem to be better people than some of the newer folks we get in FL.

[pianogal]

Originally Posted by TANaples

Smartest State 2006-2007

Very interesting and GREAT link. Also has other fascinating statistics on it....

Such as:

Crime - While Florida is listed as 9th ,Tennessee is even worse at number 6.
SC rates a 4. Nevada is the worst in first place.

http://os.cqpress.com/Crime%20State%...0Dangerous.pdf


Most Livable State which is based on a a broad range of economic, educational, health-oriented, public safety, and environmental statistics
Most of the top ten are Midwestern States while Number 1 is New Hampshire.

Florida is ranked at 28
Tennessee is almost at the bottom of the heap at 47
SC is even worse at 49
ALL of Florida's southern neighbors rated MUCH lower than Florida....ALL in the Bottom 10!

http://os.cqpress.com/StateRank2008_Rankings.pdf

[hiknapster]

Originally Posted by sunrico90

We really need to be careful how we answer this question:

Are you saying Natives are the cause and not the "newer residents" from (the restless masses) that are Brooklyn, Cleveland, and Havana, and Port-au-Prince?

Many of those non natives are related to natives that relocated to Florida because at one time Fl was the golden state. The place to retire, one of my cousins from NYC purchased land in south Miami about 20 years ago because she wanted to retire in Florida, she was 20 years old at that time.

What about the ones that double or triple the profit on their home sales after the hurricanes and drove the prices out of reach. Purchased damaged homes for 1/3 of the value and sold for a superior gain.

Florida has problems, many are also reflected in every other state of this nation. But we should ask What are we doing to fix it? What is my role in this problem? Should I be looking on way to better my community, my town, my city or just complain and continue to be part of the problem.

I'm one that believes in accountability and ownership. I'm one that want to help the area and we are making it a bit better. I'm one that will be here to see progress once again.

Yes, is difficult no question about it, but is going to take time to get out of this situation. Read on the other forums and you can see the same problems.

We are not allowed...

Nice post.

Clarification. Memphis crime is so bad, that it drags down the stats for the entire state. Most of the state looks like Mayberry. pianogal, I believe that you went to school in Tennessee and know this to be the case.

The problem with this thread is a good example of what is wrong with Florida. A magazine article highlighting the problems in Florida turns into a thread riddled with finger pointing at other states, New Yorkers, and the typical "we're bad but not that bad."

Greedy developers and the politicians whose palms they greased while the residents looked the other way because Florida was just a way station and grandson Johnny has a great education in Michigan are the reason why the state is in trouble once again.

The state is too darn short-sighted. Build a development in a swamp and there will be consequences. Don't fund the schools and public safety and your chances go up to be the victim of a home-invasion.

Good golly folks, the state has been featured in Time, The New York Times and several other national publications. Could they all be so wrong? No, there are plenty of areas of this country that do not have your problems. Quit with your endless lists, put down some permanent roots and fight for your darn state.

[pianogal]

[QUOTE=hiknapster;4426047]Nice post.

Clarification. Memphis crime is so bad, that it drags down the stats for the entire state. Most of the state looks like Mayberry. pianogal, I believe that you went to school in Tennessee and know this to be the case.


LOL....I went to school in TN, 30 years ago and the only time I've ever been to Memphis was driving through it on the way to California...never even stopped - never been interested in Memphis or even interested in TN crime statistics. Why defensive of TN?

Just posted that information and singled out Florida's neighboring states - no time to do them all and besides unfortunately, the south, which I dearly love and plan to live in for the rest of my life.....took most of the lower spots on all the lists.

Except for visiting Smoky Mountain National Park and surrounding areas every year, I haven't been back to TN in general until this summer. We spent one day riding through and visiting Johnson City and Bristol on the way to Damascus. Where we rode the Creeper Trail and hiked Mt. Rogers. Beautiful, wild country, but very poverty stricken.

We were considering the area as a possibility for retirement. We talked to some locals. They told us....forget moving here unless you bring your jobs with you. There were some newer areas in Johnson City that looked nicer, but for the most part both towns looked tired, and unkempt - most of the locals were driving old, rusty vehicles. Many of the houses looked like they hadn't had anything done to them in 40 years. Perhaps we just passed through the wrong parts of town....but we spent a couple of hours driving through each of them and while we saw a few nice locations, they were too few and too far between all the 'other.' Sadly, we crossed them off our 'retirement' list.

I say this not to put down Tennessee, I would never go to the Tennessee forum and express the above sentiments. I think it is has been blessed with great beauty, friendly residents and you can't beat the low property tax and no state income tax.

DH and I deliberately left the interstates and drove back roads through many small southern towns in Georgia, SC, NC, TN and VA this summer. We were dismayed to find that almost every small town with the exception of a few such as Clayton, GA (tourist town) and the tourist mountain towns of NC and Gatlinburg, were in terrible shape. They looked more like ghost towns of the old west with many of the downtown buildings boarded up and the beautiful old mansions surrounding the town in disrepair.

Why? There are no jobs. No manufacturing anymore, no tobacco or cotton fields, etc.

Our entire country is going through a huge change. I have visited many of these places for the past 25 years and watch them slowly deteriorate. A very few have been able to attract large employers and and make the transistion...i.e. Greenville, SC or Florence, SC. The winner of them all - Charlotte, NC. Amazing growth in the last 20 years. Some have done it by attracting the tourist crowd - NC mountains - but by and large the rural areas in the south are dying a slow painful death.

DH and I love the charm and peace that was once present in the rural south....it saddens us to see the poverty and hopelessness we experienced when we visited and talked to many locals. All of America is changing - not just Florida.

However, thank you for your call to arms for us Floridians - I pray we can rise to the challenge.

[hiknapster]

I just came back from a breakfast in Knoxville with five former Floridians that are now happy Tennesseans. I am sure that we are seriously deluded, after reading your post.

I am quite certain that Time has plans to report a large expose on Tennessee's demise in the next issue.

In all seriousness, I mentioned you, pianogal, and your previous Tennessee education in a light-hearted manner. Maybe it didn't come off that way, but that's what I meant, since we have always had such good interactions.

For you to write such a lengthy post about Tennessee, in a thread that discusses Florida and its future, speaks volumes.