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Yes, many people come to Florida thinking that it's something that it isn't. It's a great place to vacation or retire, but don't try to raise a family here, at least not in south Florida.
I think it depends on what part of the state people are living in. The state has huge differances in property taxes, HOI, car insurance cost depending what part you are in. When I lived in Tallahassee, my car insurance was half the cost of when I had it registered in Miami-Dade county and that was 8 years ago. And from what I have read from these forums, by Property insurance would be a quarter of what I pay, if I moved to Tampa, Jacksonville, Orlando than in SE Florida. So I think it really depends where these people are.
$200,000 would get you a one bedroom townhouse 10 miles inland in SE florida. Or if you wanted to be closer to the water, then $200,000 would get you shack in rough area, like the last poster said.
I think it has been established beyond a doubt that housing prices in Florida are higher than many other areas, while wages are lower than many areas. The question is, why is this so?
The only answer that makes any sense is supply and demand. Housing prices are high because people are willing to pay those prices in order to live in Florida. Wages are low because people are willing to accept a lower wage in order to live in Florida.
If people really stopped coming, and jobs went unfilled, the wages would increase until they reached a point where people started coming, again. Similarly, if people stopped buying houses, prices would drop until they were low enough to entice people to buy again.
That is what has happened over the last year or so, after prices got artificially high -- people reduced their buying, and prices are now declining, again. However, wages and jobs have increased since 2000, so housing prices will never be that low, again.
Now, the next question is, if housing is high and wages are low, how are people affording to move to Florida? The answer is that the people are are buying the houses have usually cashed out of a northern house for enough money to buy the Florida house regardless of their wage. Also, there are more 2-person wage-earning families today than ever before. Finally, some people are willing to live more frugally in order to afford Florida.
It is the desperate people who have failed in other areas of the nation and who think they can solve all their problems by moving to Florida, who move here without adequate resources and with few job skills, and who are too short-sighted to be willing to live frugally, who are having problems in Florida.
SUPERB post. You actually didn't slam Florida just because it's getting more expensive. Awesome post I probably would have guessed prices would never be as low as they were, but hopefully they'll drop off a little more reasonably in line with the wages.
You can still get a 55+ condo in south FL for $50k to $100k. Lots of affordable mobile homes as well. But the crime and hurricanes made FL lose its charm. I am not even sure if I want to retire in FL, I dont even like the weather(I wont complain again why, just saying so) I may retire in north Georgia or something.
I am telling you what the rents are. You can rent in a bad area for less but you might as well relocate out of FL if a bad area in FL is all you can afford. You dont want to live with crime just for the sake of living in FL.
I dont care about national median price, middle class people are leaving in droves because when you have that middle class $35k annual salary you cant afford more than about $80k of house. FL used to be affordable for middle class, not anymore!
I'm sorry - where do you get the $35k salary = $80k house? I think a LOT of people with a $35k salary (natl avg. salary is only around $40k) have more than an $80k house.
I think it has been established beyond a doubt that housing prices in Florida are higher than many other areas, while wages are lower than many areas. The question is, why is this so?
The only answer that makes any sense is supply and demand. Housing prices are high because people are willing to pay those prices in order to live in Florida. Wages are low because people are willing to accept a lower wage in order to live in Florida.
If people really stopped coming, and jobs went unfilled, the wages would increase until they reached a point where people started coming, again. Similarly, if people stopped buying houses, prices would drop until they were low enough to entice people to buy again.
That is what has happened over the last year or so, after prices got artificially high -- people reduced their buying, and prices are now declining, again. However, wages and jobs have increased since 2000, so housing prices will never be that low, again.
Now, the next question is, if housing is high and wages are low, how are people affording to move to Florida? The answer is that the people are are buying the houses have usually cashed out of a northern house for enough money to buy the Florida house regardless of their wage. Also, there are more 2-person wage-earning families today than ever before. Finally, some people are willing to live more frugally in order to afford Florida.
It is the desperate people who have failed in other areas of the nation and who think they can solve all their problems by moving to Florida, who move here without adequate resources and with few job skills, and who are too short-sighted to be willing to live frugally, who are having problems in Florida.
I don't think the wages are low at a lot of jobs because the workers are willing to accept them, that is what the available jobs are worth. Many jobs are just unskilled service jobs and that's the pay no matter where you go. Florida has no industry here that pay good wages, we don't have plants building cars. Florida just is what it is and as a resort area may no longer be a place where someone should be coming to raise a family and work.
You have to come here with money and that is about it. I remember a few years back when someone wrote that Trump only paid his driver $20,000 a year (This was quite a few years ago). Trump just said that was the going wage for the job. He is right, how much can you pay a maid or cashier. Those are the jobs and that is the pay, how do you get around that? If they were to over pay for those jobs, then that would create a run on the jobs and people would come from all over to get them and then there would be no new jobs period creating a whole new set of problems.
I see no solution other then to create housing for those who do those kinds of jobs and that creates a getto like effect. I don't think there is a solution. No one want to see big industry coming to Florida I am sure. Florida just is what it is, take it or leave it.
I don't think the wages are low at a lot of jobs because the workers are willing to accept them, that is what the available jobs are worth. Many jobs are just unskilled service jobs and that's the pay no matter where you go. Florida has no industry here that pay good wages, we don't have plants building cars. Florida just is what it is and as a resort area may no longer be a place where someone should be coming to raise a family and work.
Exactly. Florida lacks substance.
Quote:
You have to come here with money and that is about it. I remember a few years back when someone wrote that Trump only paid his driver $20,000 a year (This was quite a few years ago). Trump just said that was the going wage for the job. He is right, how much can you pay a maid or cashier. Those are the jobs and that is the pay, how do you get around that? If they were to over pay for those jobs, then that would create a run on the jobs and people would come from all over to get them and then there would be no new jobs period creating a whole new set of problems.
I see no solution other then to create housing for who do those kinds of jobs and that creates a getto like effect. I don't think there is a solution. No one want to see big industry coming to Florida I am sure. Florida just is what it is, take it or leave it.
Yep, Florida is what it is. A great place to visit, but don't move here.
>>It is the desperate people who have failed in other areas of the nation and who think they can solve all their problems by moving to Florida, who move here without adequate resources and with few job skills, and who are too short-sighted to be willing to live frugally, who are having problems in Florida.<<
Wow, broad, sweeping generalizations, much?
At an income of over 120k, my partner and I couldnt have a decent life in Orlando. After living there for 6 years (the first 3 successfully) it became very hard to be comfortable. Frugal? Would going to a concert once a month fit into that mold? To afford a house in an area that resembles North America, you are looking at at least 300-400k for a small 3/2 house. So leave out East, West, and South Orlando. (sans Windemere/Dr. Phillips - which is surrounded by crime).
Our house in St. Cloud sold for so much we would never be able to come back and have even the lifestyle we once had!
So when another hurricane comes and you have to spend 2000k to board up your house and get supplies, maybe you will rethink your post.
Your posting is an insult to the many hard working people out there who are being forced to move due to insane housing, property, and insurance cost.
Not trying to insult you but I don't see how an $120k makes it hard to afford life ANYWHERE, even California. That's a pretty darn good salary. I mean, if you're struggling, so is virtually everyone in the US apparently.
Sometimes I think people like to exaggerate. I'm not picking on you, but if you're flailing with that kind of salary, something's up. You're either exaggerating to keep people away, or you're not managing it well. I'm not trying to be harsh, maybe I'm wrong, but if you, earning that salary, can't afford Florida, then almost nobody can.
At an income of over 120k, my partner and I couldnt have a decent life in Orlando.
My wife and I have never had a combined income over $110,000 per year. Now that I'm retired we have a combined income of about $75,000 per year.
We live in a 4/3/2 over 3,000 sq ft. with a screened in-ground pool, She drives a new Scion, I drive a new Mercedes-based Sprinter that is a fully self-contained RV with a list price of about $95,000. Last year, we sold our Lindahl Cedar home in the NC mountains that we had owned for over 18 years. We own 5 acres in Okeechobee, where we are planning to build a new $350,000 house (just the house; the land and improvements are already paid). I've been working in the land with my New Holland diesel tractor with front-end loader and other implements, which I bought new 4 years ago for almost $20K. I also have a Bobcat rubber-tracked mini-excavator that I use for digging trenches and landscaping, but I bought that used, along with the 6x12 hydraulic dump trailer, 7x16 flat bed trailer, 6x10 flat bed trailer, 6x12 cargo trailer (new a year ago) and other major tools.
Our house is filled with antique furniture, our stock portfolio is excellent, we have no mortgages and don't owe anyone any money, we just returned from a 26 day cruise from Miami to 1,000 miles up the Amazon River and back that cost over $14K, we're booked on a transAtlantic cruise next November from Barcelona to Rio, and we just booked a cruise for April,'08 from Hong Kong to Athens, 35 days, at a rate of over $20K plus tours. All of our cruises are in balcony cabins on Oceania Cruise lines,
We go to the theater regularly, just saw Turandot and just booked tickets for Don Giovanni.
Don't tell ME you can't make it on $120,000 per year.
People suggest that it is a pure supply demand situation. I came from dying Ohio AFTER landing a pretty decent job here in Florida. Basically I gave up on Ohio and started sending resumes to other areas. My pay is around 75th percentile. It has health insurance. After beating my head against a wall trying to get a decent job in OH I had to move.
My big problem is the demand and price increases were not true demand. It was often “California Investors”. In Summer 2003 I could have purchased ~2000 SF 4/2 for 120K in the best HS district. Nothing fancy. Just a box with a roof. For that price I could have picked a ton of options and still had a zero worry mortgage. Now a smaller 3/2 starts around 200K in a much less desirable area. It would be, about 250K in the better district. Mostly because of get rich quick types drove the prices to high levels. With Insurance and property taxes I can not afford to buy a home. Thus I get to move every year. I rent a house for a bargain from a real estate company from a “California Investor”. He has already told me my rent will probably increase by 400 dollars a month. This means I may have to move… again. My family has no stability. Apartments here are not in short supply and built for families with kids. (excepting housing projects- uh no.)
It was the get rich quick types took a necessity and made it into a commodity. They drove up the price so people on average or even moderately above average incomes struggle. And, no, I don’t have any pity on the investor losing his shirt sitting on empty property or renting at a loss.
A 200K house is not just 200K. Taxes (300) and insurance (200) will add about $500.00 per month onto that. A fairly affordable $1200.00 a month suddenly becomes $1,700.00 a month.
Moving out of Florida is not an option. I worked far too hard to get this job and spent far too much money getting here.
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I probably would have guessed prices would never be as low as they were, but hopefully they'll drop off a little more reasonably in line with the wages.
