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Old 11-05-2008, 01:16 PM
 
Location: Hernando County, FL
8,488 posts, read 17,868,557 times
Reputation: 5397

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HowDeDo View Post
Marriage is still the best institution in America for preserving civility and non perversion in relationships. Between unrestrained Sexual Hedonism and Shacking Up , these favorite american pastimes have brought much ruin to the Nation as evidenced in todays culture. There should be punishment for those who choose to pervert the established Freedoms and Rights that this Nation started with , so they can live irresponsibly leaving a huge wake of emotional pain on themselves, others, and a nation at large. Democratic freedoms are NOT working in this country any longer and its certainly time for a little bit of totalitarian authority to get this once great Nation back in line again. Control your genitals or recieve punishment for spreading havoc thruout the Land .... its working real good in Singapore and other places around the World. Extreme measures are required to curtail extreme disobedient Offenders from demanding their immorality be praised.
Here is what your post boils down to.

So my 3 year marraige that was in a church and done with a marraige lic. but didn't last was good for society even though we fought for almost 3 years straight.

My 12 year relationship with my current wife (I call her that even though we never married) has brought ruin to Florida even though we are still together and are raising my children from my first marraige.

I have friends that have been with thier partner for 20 years or more being productive memebers of society and more loving than many of the marraiges that you deem acceptable including those that stay together just for the kids but because it is not what you deem correct you think they should be punished.

I have found over the years that the loudest preachers usually have the most to hide.

 
Old 11-05-2008, 03:01 PM
 
Location: where my heart is
5,642 posts, read 7,928,430 times
Reputation: 1661
Default Stay together just for the kids?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Peterson View Post
Here is what your post boils down to.

So my 3 year marraige that was in a church and done with a marraige lic. but didn't last was good for society even though we fought for almost 3 years straight.

My 12 year relationship with my current wife (I call her that even though we never married) has brought ruin to Florida even though we are still together and are raising my children from my first marraige.

I have friends that have been with thier partner for 20 years or more being productive memebers of society and more loving than many of the marraiges that you deem acceptable including those that stay together just for the kids but because it is not what you deem correct you think they should be punished.

I have found over the years that the loudest preachers usually have the most to hide.
as someone who grew up in a household like that, you are doing the kids no favors. Without going to detail, my childhood was just plain HORRIBLE. I used to cry myself to sleep at night wishing my parents WOULD divorce. Yes, they stayed together their entire lives but even though they lived in the same house, they didn't speak to each other for the last 15 years of their lives. My Dad apologized to me on his deathbed for making my life so miserable. My Mom never went to see him. You want MORE of that? Yes, sacred, holy matrimony of one man and one woman.

I will contrast that to my cousin's life. My Aunt was gay but married a man to have a child and to "hide" from society. A lot of gays did that back in those days. I hear so many of these religious people say that gays can marry somebody of the opposite gender. Of course, it is a "choice" so they can change. Yeah, right. Needless to say, my Aunt's marriage didn't last. After the divorce, she moved in with her SO, who she had met before her marriage, and raised my cousin with her. This was back in the 1950s. My cousin had a wonderful life with his two parents to loved him and loved each other; in vast contrast to my life. I used to dream of running away as a kid and going to live with Aunt Jackie and my cousin Barry. Never did, but it definitely showed me what a GOOD family life was all about. Aunt Jackie and her partner stayed together for over 30 years until they passed away.

Someday, we as a society will change. The younger generation will lead the way when my generation passes. ALL families and couples will be accepted one day. It is just a matter of time. The genders of their parents are immaterial.
 
Old 11-05-2008, 07:40 PM
 
2,473 posts, read 4,827,344 times
Reputation: 1203
Quote:
Originally Posted by XXXAVIER View Post
Any time you deny any group of law abiding human beings any rights you are constitutonally incorrect. I personally lost my "wife" [girlfriend ,lover and best friend ] she suffered a heart attack right in front of me . I performed cpr for 11 minutes . Her heart was stopped the whole time . When ems revived her never in my worst nightmares did i think she was dead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TANaples View Post
as someone who grew up in a household like that, you are doing the kids no favors. Without going to detail, my childhood was just plain HORRIBLE. I used to cry myself to sleep at night wishing my parents WOULD divorce. Yes, they stayed together their entire lives but even though they lived in the same house, they didn't speak to each other for the last 15 years of their lives. My Dad apologized to me on his deathbed for making my life so miserable. My Mom never went to see him. You want MORE of that? Yes, sacred, holy matrimony of one man and one woman.
First of all, I am so sorry for your loss xxxavier!!
Second of all, I am sorry that you had to go through all that TAN!!

This "sacred" matrimony thing is just a big joke anymore!! My family is RIDDLED with infidelity from my parents straight through to ALL my aunts & uncles!! They were ALL "church married" with the "better or worse" & "death do us part" crap for all the good it did!! No wonder churches are closing right & left...most are now nothing more than "dens of Pharisees & iniquity" (hmmm....WHO could've said that??) & run by hypocrites!!

This decision is just a bump in the road. It affects a whole bunch of people (gay AND straight) negatively now, but as TAN said, as time goes on this too shall pass & ALL people will eventually be treated equal!!
 
Old 11-05-2008, 07:42 PM
 
Location: Houston, TX
4,678 posts, read 8,481,365 times
Reputation: 1960
Quote:
Originally Posted by tallrick View Post
Marriage is a religious matter. Government should not sanction religious ceremonies.
Marriage is a religious matter when performed in a church or by a minister, priest, ect, ect.

When it's done in a courthouse and by a public servant, It's a Government ceremony and should absolutley be allowed!
 
Old 11-05-2008, 09:54 PM
 
Location: Jax
8,204 posts, read 32,132,242 times
Reputation: 3391
Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsychic View Post
It is my belief that people did NOT understand it correctly. When we were standing in line for early voting, there were many people confused about the wording of this and other amendments. Many said they weren't even going to vote since they weren't sure what some things meant. And I also think that due to the wording some people thought voting "yes" meant "no" and vice versa. They really should word this stuff in plain English, but I have a feeling they wanted to intentionally confuse people.
I think so too, Gypsy . I voted early and the lines were long, so a few of us on line were chatting. The young couple behind me were new to voting and though they felt very confident in choosing their presidential candidate, they hadn't given any consideration to any of the other choices, including the amendments. Amendment 2 was the one I stressed to them to be sure they understood their choice. They were a very pro-gay couple and were happy to be able to vote "no" on the amendment. Had they walked in cold and tried to read the amendment and make a determination on the spot, there's a chance they might have voted against their true feelings.

This whole amendment thing is a mess, we can't keep doing this .
 
Old 11-06-2008, 07:29 AM
 
Location: Exit 14C
1,555 posts, read 3,708,316 times
Reputation: 395
I guess at this point we need to wait for the US Supreme Court to strike down one of these amendments (it probably doesn't matter which state's) as unconstitutional on discriminatory grounds . . . we just need to make sure that it's not attempted until we're fairly certain we've got the right line-up on the Supreme Court for it. It wouldn't start at the Supreme Court level, but I bet any challenge would end up there.
 
Old 11-06-2008, 02:44 PM
 
Location: where my heart is
5,642 posts, read 7,928,430 times
Reputation: 1661
Default There will be retirements on SCOTUS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tungsten_Udder View Post
I guess at this point we need to wait for the US Supreme Court to strike down one of these amendments (it probably doesn't matter which state's) as unconstitutional on discriminatory grounds . . . we just need to make sure that it's not attempted until we're fairly certain we've got the right line-up on the Supreme Court for it. It wouldn't start at the Supreme Court level, but I bet any challenge would end up there.
Some were just waiting for a President like Obama. Federal Laws trump States Laws. Case in point, Roe v Wade, Lawrence v Texas, etc. Many states still have these laws on their books, but because of SC rulings they are now null and void, yes, even in state constitutions.

As I said on another thread, it will happen. It's just a matter of time. At this point, somebody will take this to the SC, when the time is right.
 
Old 11-07-2008, 05:26 AM
 
464 posts, read 1,518,576 times
Reputation: 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by TANaples View Post
There is nothing sacred or holy about it. Is your mortgage sacred and holy too? Contracts aren't sacraments either. The whole concept of marriage has been totally blurred into religion. If people want all that religious stuff, let them have their ceremonies in churches, who can discriminate all they want, such as the catholic church refusing to marry civily divorced couples. Want an amendment to ban divorce too because a church doesn't recognize it?
'All that religious stuff' are what the Founders of this Country thought was best for future generations including ours ; the opposite to morals, ethics, and values is everyone doing what they think is right in their own minds . While it might appear to be great freedom to live by, it isnt. Its enslavement and self deceiving. You dont really want a society like this even if it satisfies your entitlement. Surely you must recognize the consequences our society faces today as a result of people living the lie of immorality including two men making love Moderator cut: .. present/dying of AIDS/ and demanding everyone applaud the lifestyle, unrestrained sexual hedonism keeping the Abortion Mills thriving at the rate of 4,000 daily murders of developing Americans, and ShackingUp keeping the door ajar for a quick exit leaving behind incalculable emotional pain. (?). Please, for your own sake, stop beleiving the lie our Culture with the Medias help is cramming down our throats ---- it does nothing short of elevating rebellion, pride, and arrogance toward the godly foundations of living correctly and civily ; foundations which werent foreign to the wise men who got this Country rolling ...and foundations which your Parents tried to instill in you also. Declaring your a full fledged Liberal is akin to declaring you just dont care anymore . Liberalism and Humanism breeds apathy because its a necessary element for one living / beleiving in an irresponsible lifestyle . The best cure is to get to know the Creator on a personal level and to commit to living according to HIS moral mandates, and not our own. Our Founding Fathers agreed . Regards.

Last edited by Keeper; 11-08-2008 at 06:58 AM.. Reason: Too graffic
 
Old 11-07-2008, 06:00 AM
 
Location: America
6,985 posts, read 15,439,539 times
Reputation: 2067
Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsychic View Post
It is my belief that people did NOT understand it correctly. When we were standing in line for early voting, there were many people confused about the wording of this and other amendments. Many said they weren't even going to vote since they weren't sure what some things meant. And I also think that due to the wording some people thought voting "yes" meant "no" and vice versa. They really should word this stuff in plain English, but I have a feeling they wanted to intentionally confuse people.
I understood it correctly and so did everyone else I know. But we voted yes. Not everyone agrees with homosexuality, plain and simple. Nothing to try and analyze, get angry about or whatever else. It is what it is.
 
Old 11-07-2008, 08:44 AM
 
Location: Exit 14C
1,555 posts, read 3,708,316 times
Reputation: 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by HowDeDo View Post
the opposite to morals, ethics, and values is everyone doing what they think is right in their own minds.
Actually, I don't think that's the opposite of morals/ethics and values at all. I think that's just what those things are.
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