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Old 11-18-2008, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Florida
557 posts, read 1,633,241 times
Reputation: 520

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tungsten_Udder View Post
I do not believe that there are non-biased sources--including me, including you, and including every other person alive.
I meant the stats are non-biased, of course I'm biased.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tungsten_Udder View Post
I do not believe that it's possible to be non-biased.
If you mean us posters.......I agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tungsten_Udder View Post
The point was that yes, you can discredit statistics, on a variety of grounds. Again, you'd have to argue for why the possibilities I claimed are not in fact possibilities.
The sources (CQ Press, newspapers, Forbes, U.S. Department of Labor ) have nothing to gain or lose by reporting the crime and unemployment stats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tungsten_Udder View Post
Could you cite a few of my cheers?
I could very easily name names but I won't. You know who they are........

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tungsten_Udder View Post
No, it's rather obvious to me that positive/negative, good/bad, best/worst, etc. are NOT objective facts. They're inherently subjective.
WRONG! and RIGHT! it depends on the statement

Examples:
1) if I say Florida is hot and humid that an opinion and a fact since I can pull up weather stats that would show the temps and humidity levels

2) if I say there are a lot of sex offenders in FL , I can pull up the numbers proving this fact

3) if I say FL is in bad shape for jobs, I can pull up unemployment rates proving this.......

4) if I say Fl is stupid and I hate it........THAT would be just a subjective
opinion

5) if I talk about the crime in FL, that is a fact since the state was ranked 9th most dangerous in the USA and it averages well above the US averages.

Need I go on? My point is that you, I, we, can have opinions that are also facts at the same time........the positive and negative posters both post many Florida facts.
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Old 11-18-2008, 10:28 AM
 
Location: Exit 14C
1,555 posts, read 3,718,581 times
Reputation: 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakeland Yankee View Post
I meant the stats are non-biased, of course I'm biased.
I don't agree that stats are non-biased. I gave some reasons for that. Another reason is that you could hardly have stats that aren't concept and theory-laden.
Quote:
The sources (CQ Press, newspapers, Forbes, U.S. Department of Labor ) have nothing to gain or lose by reporting the crime and unemployment stats.
People have beliefs, interests, motives, etc. You can't avoid people when you're analyzing data and compiling statistics. Organizations do not actually think, people do.
Quote:
I could very easily name names but I won't. You know who they are........
Ah--you're not saying that I'm doing any cheering I take it.
Quote:
WRONG! and RIGHT! it depends on the statement
Whether those things (good/bad, etc.) are subjective does not depend on the statement.
Quote:
1) if I say Florida is hot and humid that an opinion and a fact since I can pull up weather stats that would show the temps and humidity levels
I mentioned the kinds of terms I was referring to--good/bad, positive/negative, best/worst--evaluative terms of that type. There are facts about heat and humidity, and facts about whether Florida is relatively hotter or more humid than somewhere else. There are not facts about whether the heat and humidity are positive and negative, good or bad, comfortable or uncomfortable, etc.
Quote:
2) if I say there are a lot of sex offenders in FL , I can pull up the numbers proving this fact
Again, it would be relative to other locations, but sure there are facts about such things. But we also can't ignore spins in the way the information is presented, differences in how data is classified and compiled, what practical implications, if any, those statistics might have for anyone, etc.
Quote:
if I say FL is in bad shape for jobs, I can pull up unemployment rates proving this.......
Nope. "Bad" is an inherently subjective term. There is no fact that any place is bad or good. You could show that Florida has a higher unemployment rate than other places (again, however, we should look at differences in the way such things are compiled and reported, possible spins, etc.). It's not a fact that Florida's unemployment rate is bad however.
Quote:
5) if I talk about the crime in FL, that is a fact since the state was ranked 9th most dangerous in the USA and it averages well above the US averages.
There are facts about crime statistics as reported relative to other areas sure. And once again, we can't just ignore the analysis of such things, such as differences in reporting methods, spins, what implications those statistics have or do not have for various people, etc.--all the stuff I mentioned in that other post and then some.
Quote:
Need I go on? My point is that you, I, we, can have opinions that are also facts at the same time........
There are different senses of the word "opinion". I'm referring to evaluations of the type "positive/negative", "good/bad", etc. which I specified already so we wouldn't have to go through this clarification.
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Old 11-18-2008, 10:33 AM
 
Location: downtown Sarasota
4,726 posts, read 12,427,144 times
Reputation: 2039
Quote:
Originally Posted by Going-2-Florida View Post
I called a couple of my relatives who live in Florida and asked them to get on this board and read this post.

Yours stood out to the relative who lives in the Tampa area.

She said that you must think everyone is stupid or something.
Oh, really? I find that amusing....

People do make good choices and see that Florida can be both the ultimate living state with a year around vacation all in one.
Yes, it can, I've lived that life here for the past 17 years....

She said why not live and be on vacation year around like her, her hubby and kids are?
Ok, so she considers working a full day akin to being on vacation in Florida?

They moved from Ohio a few years back to do just this, have a life and feel like they were on vacation at the same time. She said they have lived there for a few years now and feel lucky to be able to work, play, raise their kids and be on vacation every day of the week.

If you have lived in a cold weather state for many years you would understand this.
Being that I was born and raised in Detroit, I totally understand, My college never closed for snow days...good old MSU!!!

My kids spend 3-4 months outside a year, they hate the cold. That is just plain miserable for them and us. I can see non sporty people who do not enjoy being outside or who does not like sports like we do sitting in their homes but it is not for us anymore.

We lived in Florida for a short time, then spent another 6 weeks living their with family before moving back to Ohio.

The only reason we moved back was to be with family and let my kids grow up around family. What a huge mistake!!

Why make your kids suffer through winters they do not like just to see family members? You have to decide if your immediate family has to be unhappy just so you can be around family. We have decided as a family that it is not the right choice.

I have called the other 2 family members who live in Florida and asked them to look at this forum, one is already a member and will not post in the Florida forum because she said that most negatives are stretched beyond the truth and that sure they have negatives the same as they did here in Ohio but they moved to a rural town and are just fine and see none of this negativity in their town.

So, talking to them and reading more and more I believe we are going to choose a smaller rural town, schools and crime being a top priority for us as it would be with a move to any city in any state.

Looking at home dot com I found some homes in the Wesley Chapel area that shocked me. I can buy two homes the same size as mine for the price of my home.

All three relatives have told me that the cost of living is cheaper for them in Florida then it was in Ohio once you consider everything on paper.

One did mention having problems finding a family doctor for a while who would take new patients but that was it.

We are going-2-Florida in time and appreciate everyone's responses but I just got to believe that Florida is no more unsafe or miserable then anywhere else.

Like the relative above said, why not have your cake and eat it to and work, play and raise your family and be on vacation all at the same time.
Being that I built my home on Anna Maria Island on Tampa Bay and have/had a bulls eye view of the Sunshine Skyway, I do believe I've eaten chocolate cake morning, noon & night.

It would be awesome to come home from work and be able to go right outside and enjoy it instead of coming home to sit on a computer or watch TV to pass time because you cannot go outside.
I now find it totally awsome to come home from work and either sit out on my front porch on Palm avenue and watch the world go by and or take a walk across the street to Sarasota Bay and have a drink while the sunsets....

So how about Wesley Chapel? Rural but has plenty of amenities and of course not to far from the beach for us.
It's a suburb of Tampa...google it and you can get all the information you need...


In respect to your comment that I must think everyone is stupid...no not stupid, just not informed...so many people move to Florida thinking that the "vacation" lifestyle they so enjoyed would bring them the same happiness 24/7. It's not always true and adjustments are not always easy. Since this forum is "opinion" please respect my right to have one...I've been on the west coast of Florida for over 17 years, I might have learned something as a transplant during that time...there's something about Ohio I recall when I lived back in Michigan....well, off to my job on the beach on an island...enjoy!
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Old 11-18-2008, 02:02 PM
 
Location: Marion County, FL
1,287 posts, read 2,518,456 times
Reputation: 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakeland Yankee View Post

5) if I talk about the crime in FL, that is a fact since the state was ranked 9th most dangerous in the USA and it averages well above the US averages.
Some areas have to be worse than others. So my question is, which are the worst (Orlando? Miami?) and which are the best?
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Old 11-18-2008, 04:27 PM
 
727 posts, read 1,637,290 times
Reputation: 136
Tungsten, do you even live here in FL?
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Old 11-18-2008, 04:51 PM
 
Location: Exit 14C
1,555 posts, read 3,718,581 times
Reputation: 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by BornInFL View Post
Tungsten, do you even live here in FL?
What have my posts said?
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Old 11-18-2008, 05:00 PM
 
727 posts, read 1,637,290 times
Reputation: 136
I'm looking at your location. I think I read you are trying to move to WPB area, you had pizza that you loved in RPB... and I remember reading you thought the Palm Bch Mall was closing because of "hype" (which really makes me wonder if you ever lived here, or visited for a lengthy period of time). No offense, just posting a lot about FL and it seems to be that perhaps living out of state and moving down here may not give your comments a lot of juice.

I live here in Orlando, and I was born in WPB, lived in RPB too. I know what it's like and what it used to be like. I lived in another state in the Southeast for a while that really puts things into perspective as far as FL goes, and showed me how bad S FL has gotten, and how the quality of life has deterriorated a lot. I am just wondering if you are seeing things as you want to see them due to the fact that you may be moving down here. When I left for Orlando, I thought I saw things differently and made excuses for all the rude ppl, the crime, etc... when really, I was just disappointed in my decision to move to Orlando, and I was really frustrated about it.
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Old 11-18-2008, 05:14 PM
 
Location: Exit 14C
1,555 posts, read 3,718,581 times
Reputation: 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by BornInFL View Post
I'm looking at your location. I think I read you are trying to move to WPB area, you had pizza that you loved in RPB... and I remember reading you thought the Palm Bch Mall was closing because of "hype" (which really makes me wonder if you ever lived here, or visited for a lengthy period of time).
Everything you just mentioned was from posts that I just wrote within the last 24 hours.

What's bizarre is that I've been posting here for months now with enough info where people could basically give my life story AND not only that, but I've more than once posted things directly in response to you, where I've quoted you (so you'd know that it's a response to you if you were paying any attention to the threads you're posting in), where I've clued you in far more than that. If you don't want to pay attention to conversations you're having, that's fine, but it just seems odd to me that you'd kinda engage in conversations that you really do not care to pay attention to.

If you're really interested in where I've been, pay a bit of attention. I'm not going to repeat it for you every week or so when it's clear that you didn't care enough to read responses to you. If you're really interested, you can go back and read some posts of mine--heck, just look for the ones that were in response to you, often because you responded to me first.
Quote:
. . . and showed me how bad S FL has gotten, and how the quality of life has deterriorated a lot.
I like South Florida a lot. I think a lot of things about it have improved.
Quote:
made excuses for all the rude ppl, the crime, etc...
I've made many comments about those things that you can go back and read if you're interested in my views on them. If not, that's fine, but I don't know why you're feigning a conversation with me.
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Old 11-18-2008, 05:30 PM
 
Location: Arctic Tundra, MA
3,633 posts, read 8,534,682 times
Reputation: 1736
What is south Florida has improved if you don't mind me asking.... I don't see it....
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Old 11-18-2008, 05:54 PM
 
727 posts, read 1,637,290 times
Reputation: 136
Ok, Tungsten. gotcha.
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