[Margel]

Originally Posted by Lakeland Yankee

No one here is overexaggerating. Every problem we speak of is a real issue. My truth and reality may not be yours ; yours may not be mine. Why should anyone be subjected to insults, mocking, attacks or fights for sharing their experiences. I'm NOT talking about you Margel but some of the other "cheerleaders". I can easily provide links backing up Florida's high unemployment, high sex offender number, strange crimes, high insurance rates, poor school ratings, drugs, etc but I didn't think I had to (isn't it common knowledge?).

I would advise anyone thinking of moving to Florida to wait until the economy is better unless you are retired. Florida is one of the worst states for unemployment and foreclosures in the nation. I want to see people move to Florida and be successful but I won't tell them what they WANT to hear , I'll tell them what they NEED to know.

I'm not a realtor nor do I play one on City-Data.com .

I may have different opinions, but I would never attack anyone for theirs. I totally understand your considerations of Florida. I know that there are issues in this state, but those same issues can be found in many different areas across the country, and heck around the world, if you look at it. I get more irritated (I guess that's what I feel) when there are over-the-top remarks, and not to pick on you, but in one of your posts you did mention something about after a rain, huge cockroaches invade your house. I know I am not quoting you exactly, but you know what I am saying. If I were someone who had never been to Florida, but was looking at it as a potential state to move to, honest to God, that statement alone would have me thinking no way! Everyone has their own opinion and perspectives on things. And it has been said many times on this forum that for some, Florida is paradise and for others, it is hell. I just wish people would give their opinions without being so over the top that anyone who hasn't experienced Florida would not walk away thinking that this place must really be one big **it hole!
I never meant to be a "cheerleader" for this state, but sometimes I feel the need to vindicate it...I don't know why....maybe I need therapy lol! Oh, I am certainly not a realtor....then for sure I wouldn't be able to afford Florida. lol.

[Lakeland Yankee]

Originally Posted by Margel

I get more irritated (I guess that's what I feel) when there are over-the-top remarks, and not to pick on you, but in one of your posts you did mention something about after a rain, huge cockroaches invade your house. I know I am not quoting you exactly, but you know what I am saying.

Here's my exact quote:

Originally Posted by Lakeland Yankee

14) Do I like sharing my home with giant cockroaches after it rains?

The only time I see the cricket sized "palmetto bugs" is after a heavy rain. I think the rain sends them indoors? Everyone living in Florida has experienced the "palmetto bug" whether they admit it or not.

Originally Posted by Margel

Oh, I am certainly not a realtor....then for sure I wouldn't be able to afford Florida. lol.

I wasn't saying that you are a realtor , I was making a general statement . Although many Florida "cheerleaders" are realtors so I wonder if there are any ulterior motives $$$ for their positive posts.

[Nikki9947]

Originally Posted by Lakeland Yankee

Yes we just love spending time here complaining . Our purpose here is to help people know the truth before relocating to an area , good or bad. Most of my posts are positive except when people ask for the truth on Florida. I know they already have their minds made up and nothing will change it. They really only want to read posts from people who tell them what they want to hear.

I didn't just move here with $5 in my pocket with a hope and a prayer. I researched, planned, and saved for well over 5 years before finally taking the plunge. It was a huge mistake and I have only myself to blame. I should have stayed in PA!



They'll find out soon enough. By then it will be too late .

Questions to ask yourself before moving to Florida

1) Am I putting the interests of my family first?
2) If I lose my job will I be able to find another one that pays well?
3) How long are the private schools waiting lists?
4) Can I handle the ungodly humidity?
5) Do I want to move to a state filled with sex offenders?
6) Do I know what MY property taxes will be ? [not the previous owners]
7) Do I want to deal with Hurricanes?
8) Do I want a high cost of living?
9) Can I handle the influx of snowbirds every winter?
10) Do I want to pay high insurance premiums?
11) Do I want to live in a transient state where I will never know who my NEW neighbors will be?
12) Do I enjoy rude people?
13) Will I miss my family and friends back home?
14) Do I like sharing my home with giant cockroaches after it rains?
15) Do I like living in a drug infested state?
16) etc,etc,etc, I could go on and on !

17) Do the sounds of different languages annoy me?

(In south Florida, some people love it and some people hate it. I think it's a reasonable question to ask yourself )

[Tungsten_Udder]

Originally Posted by Lakeland Yankee

.

"There are roaches in Florida" is true. "You will have to share your home with roaches after it rains" (which is what your question implied) is an exaggeration. Not everyone has roaches.

My truth and reality may not be yours; yours may not be mine.

"I have to share my house with roaches after it rains" might very well be true coming from you. However, that's a very different claim than "You will have to share your home with roaches after it rains", which is a universal generalization.

Why should anyone be subjected to insults, mocking, attacks or fights for sharing their experiences.

Do you believe that people should be challenged when they claim something as factual that's not factual?

I can easily provide links backing up Florida's high unemployment, high sex offender number, strange crimes, high insurance rates, poor school ratings, drugs, etc but I didn't think I had to (isn't it common knowledge?).

The problem on those ends is not that you're stating that Florida has unemployment, registered sex offenders, other kinds of crimes, drugs, etc. It certainly has those things. And it wouldn't even be a problem to note that the employment is higher than other places if we're giving specifics (and preferably giving some source for it). The problems there rather arise in a four different ways:

(1) Exaggerations. For example, if someone were to say, "If you move here, you will not find a job", or "You will not find a job making above $10 per hour". It's not a fact, as a universal generalization, that everyone who moves to Florida will not find a job or not find one making over $10 per hour. There are people who move to Florida and find jobs easily, who make lots of money there, etc. That simple fact negates the universal generalization. There are many reasons for these exaggerations (such as people psychologically projecting their own experiences as if they'd be universal, or sometimes just laziness to do any research), but whatever the reason, they're exaggerations,

(2) Subjective assessments presented as factual and non-relative. For example, it's not a fact that Florida has a cost of living that one will be uncomfortable with. It depends on the person and what their situation turns out to be. If Florida has a higher cost of living, it has to be higher relative to somewhere else.

(3) Implication through selective information. For example, noting that Florida has cockroaches, or that people are selling and doing drugs there, as if other places do not have cockroaches or you might not be able to find drugs there.

(4) Underanalyzing. This is basically the acceptance of statistics as gospel without ANY critical thinking about them, and it's unfortunately rampant on City-Data. Do all municipalities/counties/states report sex offenders/crimes/school performance/employment/etc. in the same way? Can there be not only different methodologies and theories about the best way to report data, but varying motives for reporting different data in different ways? Do crime statistics really tell us how likely a particular person is to be safe? Do school ranking criteria as they are presently instantiated really tell us how likely it is that your child will become well educated, get into whatever college they may want to attend, become successful as an adult, etc.? Do unemployment statistics really tell us how likely it is that someone will be able to find a job? These kinds of questions do not have easy answers, and exploring them requires a lot of research and analysis--which is why most folks do not bother.

[ChrisA70]

They are not regular roaches, they are Palmetto bugs(the ones that are an inch long, wide bodied, walnut brown). And 90% of homes in Florida have them. A FACT learned in my Class I went to for my pest control certification. They can be controlled with pesticides, but they are harmless and are NOT the nasty roaches you find in your food in the cabinets. I would be more concerned with the small narrow American Cockroaches, or the worst ones you can get in your house the German Cockroaches. Not everyone has regular roaches, just the unclean nasty people.

Originally Posted by Tungsten_Udder

What about the post where I pointed out all the things that were gross exaggerations? "There are roaches in Florida" is true. "You will have to share your home with roaches after it rains" (which is what your question implied) is an exaggeration. Not everyone has roaches. "I have to share my house with roaches after it rains" might very well be true coming from you. However, that's a very different claim than "You will have to share your home with roaches after it rains", which is a universal generalization. Do you believe that people should be challenged when they claim something as factual that's not factual? The problem on those ends is not that you're stating that Florida has unemployment, registered sex offenders, other kinds of crimes, drugs, etc. It certainly has those things. And it wouldn't even be a problem to note that the employment is higher than other places if we're giving specifics (and preferably giving some source for it). The problems there rather arise in a four different ways:

(1) Exaggerations. For example, if someone were to say, "If you move here, you will not find a job", or "You will not find a job making above $10 per hour". It's not a fact, as a universal generalization, that everyone who moves to Florida will not find a job or not find one making over $10 per hour. There are people who move to Florida and find jobs easily, who make lots of money there, etc. That simple fact negates the universal generalization. There are many reasons for these exaggerations (such as people psychologically projecting their own experiences as if they'd be universal, or sometimes just laziness to do any research), but whatever the reason, they're exaggerations,

(2) Subjective assessments presented as factual and non-relative. For example, it's not a fact that Florida has a cost of living that one will be uncomfortable with. It depends on the person and what their situation turns out to be. If Florida has a higher cost of living, it has to be higher relative to somewhere else.

(3) Implication through selective information. For example, noting that Florida has cockroaches, or that people are selling and doing drugs there, as if other places do not have cockroaches or you might not be able to find drugs there.

(4) Underanalyzing. This is basically the acceptance of statistics as gospel without ANY critical thinking about them, and it's unfortunately rampant on City-Data. Do all municipalities/counties/states report sex offenders/crimes/school performance/employment/etc. in the same way? Can there be not only different methodologies and theories about the best way to report data, but varying motives for reporting different data in different ways? Do crime statistics really tell us how likely a particular person is to be safe? Do school ranking criteria as they are presently instantiated really tell us how likely it is that your child will become well educated, get into whatever college they may want to attend, become successful as an adult, etc.? Do unemployment statistics really tell us how likely it is that someone will be able to find a job? These kinds of questions do not have easy answers, and exploring them requires a lot of research and analysis--which is why most folks do not bother.

[Tungsten_Udder]

Originally Posted by ChrisA70

They are not regular roaches, they are Palmetto bugs(the ones that are an inch long, wide bodied, walnut brown).

"Regular" roaches? There are at least 4,000 species of roaches around the world.

And 90% of homes in Florida have them. A FACT learned in my Class I went to for my pest control certification.

Do you have any reference for that? I'd like to look at how they did the research to determine that.

Moderator cut: comment

[ChrisA70]

Actually I have learned to to care about anything you say, you know everything about everything anyways... We all know how you are on here. Let me find the book from the class I WAS CERTIFIED IN, by a environmental STATE CERTIFIED CLASS at UCF in Orlando, just to prove something to you, that for once you are know the know it all of all know it alls. I do know there are a lot of species Sigmund, I was referring to the 3 MOST COMMON TYPES in Florida, A PLACE YOU DON'T LIVE IN AND MOST LIKELY NEVER HAVE, UNLIKE ME WHO HAS FOR 15 years!!!!!

And if you tried really hard not to jump on someone because everyone is inferior to you on this site or planet, you would see I was just telling something I knew, not trying to discredit you.

Palmettos go right for a dry area, right after it rains, a FACT... Go live there first. I hope they swarm your house, it will be an eye opener for you... Maybe you will then stop discrediting EVERYONE on here every time one speaks. It's pretty annoying.

Originally Posted by Tungsten_Udder

"Regular" roaches? There are at least 4,000 species of roaches around the world. Do you have any reference for that? I'd like to look at how they did the research to determine that.

Also, could you tell me why you're saying these things as an apparent response to my post? Do you feel that, taking what you've said at face value, it contradicts anything I've said?

[Tungsten_Udder]

Originally Posted by ChrisA70

Actually I have learned to to care about anything you say,

"not to care" I take it you mean.

you know everything about everything anyways...

My point is often that people do not really know things they claim to know. I tend to be a skeptic in general, and I'm often broaching epistemological issues (epistemology being the philosophy of knowledge--central questions there being things like "What do we know?" "How do we know it?" etc.)

I do know there are a lot of species Sigmund, I was referring to the 3 MOST COMMON TYPES in Florida

Okay, so that's what "regular" meant? And you're saying that some research suggests that palmetto bugs are less frequent in Florida than other types?

And re the 90% claim, you're just making a vague appeal to authority (not remembering what the reference was, but since it was made by authorities, figuing it must be right, epistemologically sound, etc.)?

A PLACE YOU DON'T LIVE IN AND MOST LIKELY NEVER HAVE, UNLIKE ME WHO HAS FOR 15 years!!!!!

Just curious if you are saying that because you're skeptical of things that I've said or because you didn't pay much attention to them?

And if you tried really hard not to jump on someone because everyone is inferior to you on this site or planet, you would see I was just telling something I knew, not trying to discredit you.

Okay, I was trying to figure out why you were saying it in the context of a lot of quoted text from a post of mine though.

Palmettos go right for a dry area, right after it rains, a FACT...

Could you say what this has to do with anything that anyone said in this thread? I'm just curious what you believe the relevance to be.

I hope they swarm your house, it will be an eye opener for you...

If you read through more of my posts, you might find some info about this.

Maybe you will then stop discrediting EVERYONE on here every time one speaks. It's pretty annoying.

If anyone is annoyed by a challenge to a putatively factual statement, maybe they either should be more careful just what they claim and/or be prepared to support the claim as factual against the challenge. The idea that people should be able to just claim anything they like and let it slide doesn't sit well with me, especially on a site where the pretense is that folks considering important decisions can obtain both factual information and opinions to help them make that decision.

And on the other hand, I often provide a different subjective viewpoint on something (such as liking something that other folks do not like or vice versa), because I like to stress that not everyone is the same; we do not all have the same dispositions, tastes, desires, etc. That's important to remember especially in the context of lots of folks sharing the similar subjective views (and too often seeming to believe that their subjectivity is an impersonal fact about the world at large rather than just being about them and others like them).

[ChrisA70]

I really try not to claim opinions are fact, believe me. I just know I sat through a week of 8 hour classes listening to the instructor go on and on about bugs, bugs, and more bugs... He said palmettos are outdoor bugs, they don't prefer to be inside. They just go inside to avoid an influx of water. They are common, but seen less. Palmettos don't freak me out, but if I see a roach, that's a different story. I have a manual somewhere I have not seen for years about pest control and in it, it says 90% of all homes, especially in the lower part of FL have them, NOW, it does not say IN the houses, but no matter where I have been in Florida, and I have been all over, I have seen them everywhere I went. Lakeland Yankee said after a rain storm they were in the house=yes, they are looking for a dry area, as not to be carried away in the rain.

[Tungsten_Udder]

Originally Posted by ChrisA70

I have a manual somewhere I have not seen for years about pest control and in it, it says 90% of all homes, especially in the lower part of FL have them,

My hope is that when people hear claims like this (for example, you sitting in your certification class), you think, "Hmm . . . well, how the heck would we know that?", and then maybe be interested enough in how people claim things like that to research the methods a bit.

We know that they didn't actually check every house in Florida (and that it's not done periodically, too). The way claims like that are made is through statistical analysis. That statistical analysis may have problems (we should do just the same thing with it--think, "Statistical analysis, per the received views about statistical analysis, suggests that such and such would be true, but how do we know that this is right?"), but aside from that, it's worth examining just what empirical data and statistical analysis were behind the claim.

(And there's nothing unusual about this, by the way--it's standard academic procedure for papers to be written detailing the empirical data (when relevant), methodology and reasoning supporting claims, for it to have to pass peer review, for others in the field (or related fields, such as philosophy) to challenge various aspects of the claims, methodology, reasoning, etc. Unfortunately, non-academic sources (and sometimes even some academic sources such as lower level textbooks) usually ignore most of this stuff, to the extent of sometimes not even giving citations for the sources of claims.)

It's certainly not the case that something is correct just because someone says it, and that doesn't just go for particular types of people, it goes for scientists doing science, mathematicians doing mathematics, and everyone else, too.

NOW, it does not say IN the houses, but no matter where I have been in Florida, and I have been all over, I have seen them everywhere I went.

Although of course you haven't literally been everywhere in Florida, and not at all times. I'm also skeptical that you've seen roaches/palmetto bugs everywhere you did happen to go whenever you did happen to go there.

Lakeland Yankee said after a rain storm they were in the house=yes, they are looking for a dry area, as not to be carried away in the rain.

So you're agreeing to a universal generalization that if one lives in Florida, one will see palmetto bugs in one's home after a rain storm?