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Old 03-16-2007, 11:10 AM
 
Location: chicago suburbs
35 posts, read 161,035 times
Reputation: 19

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Quote:
Originally Posted by summergal View Post
I cannot agree more with you! Everytime you hear about an "attack", there's ALWAYS error on the owner/human 100%. It's always one of a very few senarios... generally the dog is chained out back/running wild, often intact, unsocialized and untrained, was left to "raise itself" alone in the backyard and learned to rely heavily on it's wild instincts... there is generally a child/female involved in the incident, teasing it, afraid of it but forced to be in contact with it for some reason, or seen by the dog as a threat (when walking past the yard) as normal territorial dog behavior or seen as a competitor for it's food... also normal instinct of all dog breeds.

You wouldn't have a tiger chained in the backyard and expect it to be a perfect pet, so why do people think it's safe to do the same with any dog and take a 20 month old baby out there to help feed it??(the attack in Plant City this week) These things just really p*ss me off All breeds exhibit these behaviors. I used to work for the spca as well and have had to deal with more vicious "mini" breeds than "bad" breeds. The small ones just don't have the power, but are some of the nastiest of all! It all comes down to understanding the animal and training it and (I can't stress this enough) keeping the dog inside with the family(their pack). Dogs are social beings and just do not do well alone "out back". Sorry folks but it's the truth of it. Honestly I think instead of banning breeds, they should ban outside dogs alltogether and charge the humans with negligent injury/improper dog handling/ and a similar charge like that one we already have for letting a kid hurt themselves with the family firearm, when an attack happens. 100% of the responsibility is on the dog's owner or caretaker.

btw, I have 3 pits... all rescues from terrible neighbors. FedUp - you are right, the list should be of the people and they should be banned from owning another animal ever. Glad to hear from some sensible people on this topic. Sometimes it seems we are sooooo much in the minority.
THANKS SUMMERGIRL!!! and the pitz thank you too!! I'm so glad to hear that there are more people like me out there!!! Around here where i live, southside chicago suburb.....pits are viewed so negative CUZ of the owners...what you describe about the chaining up is SO TRUE, good point about chaining up a tiger!!!! AND yes BAN the humans that are doing the improper handling/training!!! Big hugs to you!!!
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Old 03-16-2007, 11:15 AM
 
Location: chicago suburbs
35 posts, read 161,035 times
Reputation: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by macguy View Post
In 1981 I held a fund raiser for a family who had no insurance. Their family dog a pit bull had almost completely ripped the face off their four year old boy. This was the family pet and had been raised with the kids. I have owned pit bulls and although I like the breed and find them intelligent and interesting, I don't present the silly front many of the dog owners do. They are very capable of doing a lot of damage.

I find the defensive nature of the owners to be almost naive if not just dishonest about the dogs. Maybe they are just in denial, I don't know. Like I said, I have owned several pit bulls. They were raised like babies and part of the family. The last one I had bit right to the bone of the hand of a friend of ours. All he did was walk in the door. The dogs can become very territorial and can't be trusted. Many dogs are like this but don't have the capabilities of the pit bull to do serious damage, that's the difference.

Sorry macguy, just cant agree with you. have to respectfully disagree w/you, sorry... What was the 4yr old doing JUST PRIOR to the bite??? Was the kid jumping around and irritating the dog??? had to be some provocation.....especially if the dog was raised as a little little puppy!!!! dogs just dont bite just because!!! i dont care if it was a pit or a dashaund....a dashound will bite too if its ears are pullled....yes they are different body types.....then someone w/kids just shouldn't own a pit, because it is a possibility of the jaw pressure causing damage. German shepherds also have ability to crush up to 300 pounds of pressure...kids just should'nt be around them cuz dogs will bite if there is too much activity which little kids do.
sorry, have kids---ANY DOG will bite!
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Old 03-16-2007, 11:19 AM
 
Location: chicago suburbs
35 posts, read 161,035 times
Reputation: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stitch01 View Post
moving-soon, I couldn't agree with you more. Pits/AmStaffs are an awesome breed and to own one is a priviledge, not a right. 13 years with mine and '0' problems (but this wont make headlines). Ironically, I've always been more worried about him being stolen than anthing else. Nothing hurts me more than to see one abused or mistreated. I cringe at the thought of what I'd do to someone I caught mistreating a pitbull or any dog, but I'll spare you the details. Keep up the good work.
THX stitch01---no we never hear of the GOOD headlines only bad... Yes worry about them being stolen...it happens...YOU keep up the good work too and spread that news PITS/amstafs, as before hand entries state...we all use differ names so not to make them bad!!
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Old 03-16-2007, 11:24 AM
 
Location: chicago suburbs
35 posts, read 161,035 times
Reputation: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by summergal View Post
Like I said, every single dog I ever knew growing up had bitten someone at some point. Most often because one of the kids was picking on it and it got sick of the torment. Ya know what? We learned not to do that! Or parents told us we would get bitten and we did... and all of our folks said "see that's what you get for tormenting the poor dog!" We learned to respect the animal.
So your assessment that most dogs don't bite kids is incorrect.

90% of reported dog attacks are on a family member at home, half being boys under 12. All kinds if dogs DO bite kids all the time! Very few are fatal. Did you know that getting bitten by a dog is the second most frequent reason for childen going to emergency rooms? Seriously, out of 800,000 dog bites each year, less than 20 are fatal... only 1/3 of those are pits. This hysteria is so overblown and not founded in fact at all. It's just emotional knee-jerk fear. Did you know there was a mauling death by a polmeranian? It's true.

Any one who allows a child to torment a dog, ANY dog, is setting the stage for an attack. The really "nice" quiet dogs are the ones who can really lash out unpredicably because they take alot of abuse and don't offer clear signs of attacking until they totally feel so desparate, they just "snap". These are the ones who you will say "He's always been a nice dog. He never would hurt a fly. I don't know why he just snapped." Yeah, teach your children to treat animals with respect and stop blaming the dog for a trying to protect itself. You wouldn't put up with being dragged around by your ears but you expect a defenseless pup to suffer this abuse? If you truly believe what you are saying, my advice is don't own dogs. That attitude doesn't work well with dog psychology. Or at least do some very serious study on dog psychology and behavior before having another. Honestly, they don't think or see the world like we typically believe they do. Expecting dogs to be perfect on our terms is unrealistic.
WELL SAID SUMMERGAL Sorry i missed so much on this post!!! thanks for your input, i couldn't had said better myself!!!
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Old 03-16-2007, 11:26 AM
 
Location: chicago suburbs
35 posts, read 161,035 times
Reputation: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by summergal View Post
Well I truly feel bad for the pain the child went thru, but I would be suspicious of the circumstances of the incident. Was the child teasing it? Was it a backyard "family pet"? Did they raise it from a baby in the home with the child? What was the trigger? Was it food related? Any large breed could do the same damage. Pits are not super breeds and they are not the only ones with that jaw power. I wouldn't judge your dog as untrustworthy, he was doing his job protecting the home. Did he know your friend as part of your family? I guess not, considering your pup treated him as an intruder. Were you there or did your friend just come in?

None of this is unique to pits. I was attacked by a german shepard a couple years ago. All I did was walk past the garage door (we had warehouse bays next to each other). That dog was the most territorial dog I'd seen in many years! I had a standoff in my front yard last year with a "mutt" from the neighborhood. Thinking pits are more capable of killing you than a shepard, chow, dobie, rottie, neighborhood ferrel dog is niave. In the '70s it was the shepard (we had 2) and everyone was scared of them because that was the popular macho dog then. Then it was the Dobie and Rott... Now it's the pit. They are no less trustworthy than any of those breeds.

Sorry but I do defend the breed. You should always be cautious with any of the large dogs (no matter how sweet they are) around strange people and children and animals, especially when people are entering the house. I think it's very easy to forget they are dogs, who think (and react) like dogs when you live so closely with them. Painting a breed as untrustworthy because your one pit bit someone intruding (as the dog saw it) just isn't realistic. Owning any "guard" breed comes with a higher responsibility for the owner to be aware of what your dog may perceive incorrectly ahead of the event and try to prevent an incorrect response. Every dog I ever owned (including 2 schnuezers) and every dog any friend growing up ever owned, had bitten someone at some point in it's life. Usually not too bad but, it doesn't matter. It was still a bite. So I suppose I could say all dogs in general are untrustworthy. lol That's silly.
OH I'M SO MAD I MISSED SO MUCH!!!!! W E L L S A I D!!!! THANK YOU AND THE PITZ THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!!! YOU SPEAK THE TRUTH INDEED!!!!
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Old 03-16-2007, 11:32 AM
 
Location: chicago suburbs
35 posts, read 161,035 times
Reputation: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by msjbrent View Post
"It is nothing but a dog?" That is infuriating! How can you say you love animals when you said they are "nothing". When you said a dog should NOT defend itself that is insane. IT IS THE PARENTS RESPONSIBILITY. I will say it- I hate kids and love animals. Just like some people don't like dogs- I hate kids. What I hate even more if parents who don't control there kids. And the poor defensless animal will suffer because of the parents. I find the more kids the less behaved. That is no excuse. You choose to have kids, control them. There are so many lazy parents out there. Can't hack it, dont have them. But don't make the animal pay for your kids being uncontrolled.
amen!!! msjbrent, i couldn't agree more... PEOPLE CONTROL YOUR CHILDREN. us childless people hate to see kids jumping around disrespecting their parents -- i couldn't agree more w.you Doesn't take much to have a kid, people just need to do what everybody does to make one!! lazy parents for sure!!!
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Old 03-16-2007, 11:42 AM
 
Location: chicago suburbs
35 posts, read 161,035 times
Reputation: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolftraxs View Post
Hi everyone: I saw this post and had to say something. All Creatures regardless of where they came from or by whom, ARE IMPORTANT if they were not they wouldn't be here. We as humans are no less and no more important than any other animal. If we attack and hurt another person we are liable just as is an animal. The only difference between animals and humans is we can speak in order to communicate. Animals are no different then humans there are no two animals regarless of the breed that are the same they each have their own personality and there own thought process.
Just as each individual human does. We do not know what they are thinking we only speculate because it is our OPINION that an animal is or was unprovoked. We do not think like they do so we really cant say whether they were provoked or not. I had to put my cat down His name was Sasparilla he was a Siamese mix he was emotionally upset that a female cat (his sister seperated since kittens) had to move in with us (Friends house lost in a fire) she attacked him twice I boarded him for 3 days at the vets office, and had him fixed while we purchased a kennel for the other cat we would hold her till she was outside or in the kennal and she never was put on the floor she hissed at Sas like she did everyday. He went crazy kept attacking my other cat that had cared for him since he was a kitten (kiss-e-me). I did what I always did after keeping everything and everyone away for a half hour I went to get him and put him in the kennel till he felt more safe. He jumped on my head and gave me one bite laceration and two claw lacerations. Did I provoke him, no. He was upset for another reason, I still had to have him put down not because he did that because he became a danger to both the family and the other animals. It hurt to have to do that but It was what had to be done for the safety of all 13 dogs 3 other cats 6 children and 3 adults. An animal cannot say "hey I don't feel good today please leave me alone" So they use body language. It is not their fault they are what they are, just as it is not our fault we are what we are. But I can say safely, It is our fault they are what they are. Now that they are here we have to take responsability for careing for them and giving them ALL a chance they are not mistakes that we can just erase. But we can control how they are raised and better the chances of less attacks, on humans or animals. Also there are just as many reports, if not more of humans attacking humans then animals attacking humans not to mention we attack in so many different ways we don't just bite or scratch we , rape, stab, hit, kick, bite, throw things, shoot, molest and physically, mentally and emotionally hurt and abuse each other and all other creation. I think if we did to each other what we do to animals when they bite or scratch eventually it would be a good world.

I am so tired of Humans thinking they are more important then anything else in this world.. News Flash We Are NOT!!

A Pit Bull just like any other Animal or Human can be unpredictable! this is the nature that we all share. Stop with the "HUMAN BETTER THAN ANIMAL" , "ANIMAL BETTER THAN HUMAN" GOD, Or as I like to say THE GREAT SPIRIT CREATED ALL THINGS and we should respect THE GREAT SPIRIT by showing respect to all CREATION!

Thats all for now.
THANKS wolftrx!! Well Said!!!
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Old 03-16-2007, 11:44 AM
 
Location: chicago suburbs
35 posts, read 161,035 times
Reputation: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolftraxs View Post
Dear Minniemom,

Actually, Yes my bestfriend was attacked by a Golden Retriever When she was young. This dog had never bitten anyone before but unprovoked it did attack her. She is afraid of large dogs and has been ever since.

Also, Thought that you would like to know Cocker Spaniels were rated number one for attacks on their owners or the children they resided with in Arizona 1989. However Because most did not require emergency care they were not reported

here is a exerpt from Dog Bite Law site, It can be accessed through http://www.dogbitelaw.com : (Read the Whole Chapter on Why dogs bite people), here is a portion of the text
"Under principles of Common Law there is the assumption that dogs are harmless unless they have previously demonstrated a vicious propensity. This often leads to the related assumption that victims of dog attack have provoked or otherwise precipitated the attack. However, those studies which have attempted to document the context in which an attack has occurred generally show that bite victims are rarely engaging in activity that could legally be considered provocation (i.e., causing physical injury to the animal). In the non-fatal bites surveyed by Beck et al. (1975), the victims had no interaction with the dog, or were walking or sitting in 75% of the cases. In 9.6% the victim was playing with the dog and in only 6.5% could the victim's behavior be classified as provocative. (Lockwood, The Ethology and Epidemiology of Canine Aggression, in James Serpell (ed.) The Domestic Dog: Its Evolution, Behavior & Interactions with People, (Cambridge, U.K.: Cambridge Univ. Press), pp. 132-138.)"

This is also a Story From this same site these are actual statistics:
"The most horrifying example of the lack of breed predictability is the October 2000 death of a 6-week-old baby, which was killed by her family's Pomeranian dog. The average weight of a Pomeranian is about 4 pounds, and they are not thought of as a dangerous breed. Note, however, that they were bred to be watchdogs! The baby's uncle left the infant and the dog on a bed while the uncle prepared her bottle in the kitchen. Upon his return, the dog was mauling the baby, who died shortly afterwards. ("Baby Girl Killed by Family Dog," Los Angeles Times, Monday, October 9, 2000, Home Edition, Metro Section, Page B-5.)" http://www.dogbitelaw.com . Accessed March 12 2007

So, The Point is Pit bulls are only bad because attacks from them happen more often. And again if you read this site you will find that the animals parentage is first on the list of "why dogs bite"

Here is another Exerpt From this same site, http://www.dogbitelaw.com . Accessed March 12 2007. You can find the whole text under this title: "Canine homicides and the dog bite epidemic: do not confuse them"
"As a practical matter, the current tide of public outrage should be focused on the enactment of measures that would deal effectively with the entire epidemic, not merely the breeds that kill. It would be unwise to enact all kinds of controls on one or two breeds, not necessarily because it would be unfair, but because it would produce narrow and therefore unsatisfactory results. The war against crime isn't a war against just the bank robbers, but against all criminals; the war against drugs isn't a war against just the Colombian drug lords, but all drug lords. For the same reason, the dog bite epidemic must not focus on just one or two breeds and stop there. The war on this epidemic must be comprehensive."

Thought You all might enjoy this information.
Wish I could have participated in this discussion!! I'm so mad i missed the whole thing.
AGAIN WOLFTRX---WELL SAID AND HATS OFF TO YOU!!!
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Old 03-16-2007, 09:25 PM
 
Location: SE Florida
9,367 posts, read 25,131,120 times
Reputation: 9449
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Originally Posted by moving-soon View Post
OMG!!! i seriously thought you were SERIOUS about putting them down, SORRY!!!!
No, I was in a funny mood- twisted sense of humor. Last year a very old, blind and deaf dog was walking along in the rain. It was like the walking dead- so thin and matted that I couldn't hardly tell it was a dog. We took it to the vet who said it was about to die. Had the mats cut out from his paws so it didn't hurt to walk and kept it until it died less than a month later. But while he was with us, you could tell that he was happy to be lifted onto our laps and petted.

So sad, but in his last days he was showered with affection. Even my dog and cat seemed to understand- they were so nice and gentle to the old guy. It was so weird- it's ears were sealed- must have been a deformity from birth. No ear canals- my grand daughter discovered it before we took him to the vet.

When he died, I don't mean this in a cruel way, we weren't sad. It was as though it was just time. My only regret was that the family that must have known and loved him for so many years must have felt terrible not knowing what happened to him.

We don't even kill lizards in our house. Just catch them and put them outside.
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Old 03-16-2007, 10:30 PM
 
2,313 posts, read 3,160,206 times
Reputation: 471
Quote:
Originally Posted by moving-soon View Post
Sorry macguy, just cant agree with you. have to respectfully disagree w/you, sorry... What was the 4yr old doing JUST PRIOR to the bite??? Was the kid jumping around and irritating the dog??? had to be some provocation.....especially if the dog was raised as a little little puppy!!!! dogs just dont bite just because!!! i dont care if it was a pit or a dashaund....a dashound will bite too if its ears are pullled....yes they are different body types.....then someone w/kids just shouldn't own a pit, because it is a possibility of the jaw pressure causing damage. German shepherds also have ability to crush up to 300 pounds of pressure...kids just should'nt be around them cuz dogs will bite if there is too much activity which little kids do.
sorry, have kids---ANY DOG will bite!
I don't know why it happened I do remember he was in the room with the dog by himself and the father had to kill the dog with a hammer. I got involved because I was a pit bull owner myself and wanted to do something plus I was always defending the dogs reputations. My opinion has changed though on the dogs. They can turn on you for no reason, there are to many incidences to keep mindlessly defending the breed. After a while you begin to sound like smokers trying to justify themselves.

This is in Chipley just this week
http://www.fosterfollynews.com/home/news/story.php?sid=1248 (broken link)

Mind you Chipley is a pick up truck place with hunters and good old boys and they don't even want those dogs around. I am sorry, even as a former owner I can't just pretend and defend them anymore, you begin to sound like a fool after a while. They are what they are.

I had to come back and add this and I don't want it to become a debate but just so you know where I am coming from. There is a world of difference between a dog getting it's tail stepped on or it's ear pulled and it taking a nip at you, and a dog with a slight provocation launching into a full scale attack leaving someone mauled or dead. This is a light year stretch to say this occurred because a child startled the dog or annoyed it in some way.

Last edited by macguy; 03-16-2007 at 10:48 PM..
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