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Old 12-29-2008, 08:25 AM
 
Location: Exit 14C
1,555 posts, read 4,135,136 times
Reputation: 398

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BornInFL View Post
Look passed the personal experiences everyone has, they are subjective.
I don't think that there's anything wrong with something being subjective--in fact, I frequently argue the exact opposite of that. And I do not suggest "looking past" personal experiences.

What I think there is something wrong with is pretending that the subjective is objective instead (that is, not just mental in nature, and instead a "fact in the (non-mental) world"), and pretending that that personal experiences are good sources for making universal generalizations.

If I were not interested in reading about others' subjective assessments or personal experiences, I'd hardly spend time on City-Data. But I often speak up when I see people pretending that their subjective assessments are objective facts or that their personal experiences are somehow universal generalizations. They're not, and they do not need to be to be valuable. There's nothing wrong with something being subjective. There's nothing wrong with something being just a personal experience. I talk about both all the time, too (and then sometimes, like with WildStyle's comment about population above, I find that people want to argue about my subjective assessment, as if I could somehow be wrong that I do not judge population growth or reduction as good or bad in itself--it's just a subjective assessment, I can hardly be wrong about it as such).
Quote:
And dont look into stats damaging to S FL, they are misleading and used in different ways!
I've nowhere suggested that I think that "positive" statistics should be not looked at critically. In fact, I talked about various problems with statistics in a thread I started that listed Florida schools as being some of the top schools in the country, a thread that I facetiously titled "Statistics Lovers! . . . "

I don't at all mind explaining this stuff to anyone so that it makes more sense to them. They only have to ask.
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Old 12-29-2008, 02:53 PM
 
727 posts, read 1,829,280 times
Reputation: 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
Seriously? YOU are criticizing someone for ignoring stats and personal experiences damaging to your shangrila?

All said without a hint of irony or self awareness, of course.
Oh, so lets only pay attention to stats and personal experiences when it is something we want to hear. Anything negative about S FL and it's subjective, and when stats are used (although I like personal experiences better) lets' throw them out too! LOL. Pick and choose what you all wanna see and believe, but there are a number of reasons there is white flight and other folks leaving S FL for places like GA and TN.
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Old 12-29-2008, 03:11 PM
 
Location: America
6,993 posts, read 17,301,516 times
Reputation: 2093
Quote:
Originally Posted by BornInFL View Post
Oh, so lets only pay attention to stats and personal experiences when it is something we want to hear. Anything negative about S FL and it's subjective, and when stats are used (although I like personal experiences better) lets' throw them out too! LOL. Pick and choose what you all wanna see and believe, but there are a number of reasons there is white flight and other folks leaving S FL for places like GA and TN.
I think this has less to do with race and more to do with economic condtions. When things are going good everyone is happy. When things are bad, everyone wants to blame all their problems on everything from global warming to Latinos. The fact of the matter is Florida, especially south florida, doesn't and never has had a good economy. By good a I mean a diverse economy sufficient enough to absorb the impact of economic downturns. Now that cost of living has far exceeded personal finances people are leaving S. Florida and rightly so. But race shouldn't be bought into this factor, it just displays small mindedness.
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Old 12-29-2008, 03:11 PM
 
Location: Hillsboro, OR
2,200 posts, read 4,402,454 times
Reputation: 1385
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
I honestly don't care enough about you to look at your profile in depth. Considering people have been bleeding out of the Northeast rust belt into the sunbelt, and since I (and many others) would sooner move to Europe than move to Kansas or Arkansas for "job opportunities."
Then stop making stupid comments about "why is someone from AZ commenting about FL."

Quote:
Again, Florida is ranked 29th or 30th... which is actually above some NE states (such as Maryland), and other "mid west" states... such as Texas, and Arkansas. I'm sorry if you think you didn't get a good education.
There are 50 states in this country. 25 is in the middle. Awesome! A Below Average education! We should defend this until we're blue in the face...


Quote:
What isn't true? That more people die in winter storms than hurricanes in Florida? Prove it. Your little map does no such thing.
The map proves it. Just because you can't understand it doesn't mean it doesn't prove it. If you can't understand statistics, then stop asking for proof because it is the only way to prove it. I will briefly explain it for you in simple terms...and if you STILL don't understand the map, please go dig a hole in the sand and live in it.

The darker the shading on the map, the greater the mortality rate from natural hazards. Based on the data this was calculated from, this does not include Hurricane Katrina....which would significantly affect the data if it was. Now, the darkest shading is in the states of Colorado, Utah, Wyoming, Montana, and the Dakotas. This is true because they get very, very severe weather in the summer (supercells, tornadoes, etc.)...in addition to some of the most severe weather found in the country (in the mountains of CO, WY, UT, MT...and blizzards + coldest weather in the lower 48 in ND, SD).

When comparing the southeast (including FL), to New England and the Mid-Atlantic, this allows the best comparison between severe weather/hurricanes and winter weather. Notice how the mortality ratios in the north are below the mean, whereas that in the south is above the mean.

Less people die in cold weather/winter storms because they happen more often, therefore people remember and know how to deal with them and the precautions they must take. Since a few years usually passes between each hurricane (not to mention the various locations), people usually get a "blah" attitude about it and do not take them as seriously as they should, therefore allowing more deaths (not to mention, the severity of hurricanes is an order of magnitude at least above winter storms).

That's all I'm saying on this subject anymore. If you still don't understand it, perhaps you should go back to school and take a few statistics and meteorology courses.

Quote:
And you know what? People are LEAVING the NE and Midwest and moving to the Sunbelt. Maybe you should go on a road trip to convince all those people that their fortunes lie in South Dakota, along with fine weather.
That's all well and good, but a large portion of those who move to FL or AZ from there end up moving back...because it is not all it is hyped up to be. People usually can't take the absolute heat of the summers (plus humidity in FL) and in FL, at least, they realize they can't find a job, get insurance, etc. etc. Oh, and South Dakota was just one example of a state that has handled their economic situation correctly...there are 38 others which have done better than FL (38/50 = 76%)...and guess what? Some of them are in the rust belt.


Quote:
2008: Florida ranked #17 in the nation in places to do business. As for states in recession, take a look at this map:

ABC News: Majority of States Now in Recession
Yawn. That is too subjective. What matters is how many people have jobs....and Florida is not doing well at that.

Quote:
The "midwest" is doing fine, for now, but you couldn't PAY me to live in Kansas. Period.
I don't know what your obsession with Kansas is. Sure it has some nice areas, but there are other states that are better.

Quote:
You're full of crap. Period. I OWN a home 2 miles from the ocean and seven blocks from the intracoastal and pay $2100/year... in a wind zone, through a real insurance company, NOT Citizens. When I get impact windows next year, I hope to have my rates go DOWN even further after wind mitigation. I have friends who are insurance agents, insurance adjusters, and many many other insurance lawyers. Your "studies" are useful for your cute graduate level work in whatever it is your studying, but please, know your facts. Come speak to me when you actually own a home in Florida and try to buy insurance. The only people who need Citizens are people on the coast in really expensive houses and on the barrier islands.
That is so funny...because just last year, State Farm sent out (at least to us) a notice stating they were cancelling all homeowners policies within 3 or 5 miles (don't remember which one, but know it was one of them) of the coastline. We talked to neighbors with other companies and they were doing the same thing (Allstate, Nationwide, and there were a few others I can't remember off the top of my head). So unless you have some magical independent insurance company, you are either A) Trying too hard to lie to cover your hilarious attempts at defending the state of Florida....or B) Exceptionally lucky that you even still have a non-citizens insurance company insuring your home...and you should thank your lucky stars they haven't even cancelled yet. There is one other possibility...that the insurance companies were lying...but then again, that would be too easy to prove.

Oh and your comment about the only people needing Citizens are the really expensive homes on barrier islands is flat wrong. We have a $150,000 ranch-style home at 27' elevation.


Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by psulions2007
You're terrible at defending Florida. You might find this article quite interesting: Is Florida in danger of going bankrupt? | Gainesville.com | The Gainesville Sun | Gainesville, FL

If Florida fails to have enough in its insurance guarantee fund, it will get a bailout from Washington. The joys of federalism. 17 billion short is pocket change these days.
They may succeed in getting a bailout from Washington....in which case citizens of the state of Florida should thank heavens for it. However, it will still open up large holes and expose Citizens Insurance as being incapable of meeting the demands of Floridians...and that, combined with major insurance companies mostly unwilling to write new policies in the state, will NOT be good.



Quote:
My point is there are other reasons why nobody wants to live in South Dakota. If it was such a great all around place, there's be a helluva lot more people than 750,000. But hey, have at it! I'm sure the experience of living in South Dakota is incredibly cosmopolitan, multicultural, and interesting!
...and MY point in the beginning wasn't that SD was the best place EVER to live....but somehow, it was finding a way to attract good workers with very low unemployment and good jobs (especially in financial work). Now, how SD is able to do this so much better than FL (which, according to common thought, is supposed to be the best place ever! to live) is beyond me.


Quote:
Sorry bud, but I am not someone who thinks nothing is wrong. There's a line between not thinking Florida is the worst place on earth, like many of you bitter, miserable people, and being pollyannaish, which I have never been.

But please, excuse me for having no patience for half of you people who are either grossly misinformed (willfully or otherwise), or looking for validation for your own malcontentedness.
You sure don't act like anything is wrong....and you lash out at everyone who points out faults in the state of Florida and act like they are some sort of positive things. Ignoring the faults of the state of Florida will just make everything worse...and it is people with the attitude like yours which is helping to send Florida down the toilet.

Last edited by psulions2007; 12-29-2008 at 03:19 PM..
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Old 12-29-2008, 03:15 PM
 
727 posts, read 1,829,280 times
Reputation: 144
"Now that cost of living has far exceeded personal finances people are leaving S. Florida and rightly so."


^^^People are leaving S FL? What is all this "white flight" I keep hearing about in S FL? I mean, I dont live there anymore, so I cant call it.
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Old 12-29-2008, 03:21 PM
 
Location: America
6,993 posts, read 17,301,516 times
Reputation: 2093
Quote:
Originally Posted by psulions2007 View Post
You sure don't act like anything is wrong....and you lash out at everyone who points out faults in the state of Florida and act like they are some sort of positive things. Ignoring the faults of the state of Florida will just make everything worse...and it is people with the attitude like yours which is helping to send Florida down the toilet.
I have to disagree with you here. People like him don't necessarily make this place worse its the people in (political) position. Well I guess that does go back to the know nothings who vote people into office based on political leanings instead of their economic and social policies. Meh, never mind your right

Quote:
Originally Posted by BornInFL View Post
"Now that cost of living has far exceeded personal finances people are leaving S. Florida and rightly so."


^^^People are leaving S FL? What is all this "white flight" I keep hearing about in S FL? I mean, I dont live there anymore, so I cant call it.
such a absolutly "simple" approach to the subject matter. I said PEOPLE not WHITES. PEOPLE are leaving South Florida, specifically Broward county because the jobs just aren't there. They said residents left Miami in large numbers too but foreigners replaced them, so they didn't see a population loss, atleast not yet.

Last edited by Wild Style; 12-29-2008 at 03:53 PM..
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Old 12-29-2008, 03:41 PM
 
Location: Houston, TX
4,678 posts, read 9,838,537 times
Reputation: 1960
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Style View Post
I think this has less to do with race and more to do with economic condtions.
That's exactly what it is, I doubt anyone is leaving Florida due to ethnic groups, esp. to other parts of the South, All Southern states have large numbers of minority residents, Mississippi has the highest number of black residents, Memphis, Atlanta, and New Orleans have the largest number of black residents in terms of cities...

Unless you're talking hispanic, then I think the numbers are close but obviously Florida will have more due to the islands like Cuba and P.R. but alot of the other southern states have alot of Mexican and Columbian people.
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Old 12-29-2008, 05:41 PM
 
727 posts, read 1,829,280 times
Reputation: 144
Default No comparison

Quote:
Originally Posted by TNRyan23 View Post
That's exactly what it is, I doubt anyone is leaving Florida due to ethnic groups, esp. to other parts of the South, All Southern states have large numbers of minority residents, Mississippi has the highest number of black residents, Memphis, Atlanta, and New Orleans have the largest number of black residents in terms of cities...

Unless you're talking hispanic, then I think the numbers are close but obviously Florida will have more due to the islands like Cuba and P.R. but alot of the other southern states have alot of Mexican and Columbian people.

TN and NC, GA... etc... cant compare to FL when comparing the amount of hispanics. Yes, I agree, Atlanta and Memphis has a lot of Blacks, but look at cities in S FL with the large number of hispanics, blacks, haitians, etc... where whites are almost non-existent. Look at places like Kissimmee and Poinciana in Central FL.
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Old 12-29-2008, 06:49 PM
 
Location: Houston, TX
4,678 posts, read 9,838,537 times
Reputation: 1960
Quote:
Originally Posted by BornInFL View Post
TN and NC, GA... etc... cant compare to FL when comparing the amount of hispanics. Yes, I agree, Atlanta and Memphis has a lot of Blacks, but look at cities in S FL with the large number of hispanics, blacks, haitians, etc... where whites are almost non-existent. Look at places like Kissimmee and Poinciana in Central FL.
We have ALOT of illegal immigrants in Middle Tennessee, You'd be supprised. I said it wasn't to the scale of South Florida but we have tons. So far as African-Americans we have a large population in Nashville and Memphis is one of the largest " black " cities in the U.S.

Honestly, I don't care about being around " non-whites " as much as the next guy on this forum by reading what I've read. I'm part Cuban and have lived in South and Central Florida. The race/color of people never bothered me. People of all races were equally rude.
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Old 12-29-2008, 06:57 PM
 
727 posts, read 1,829,280 times
Reputation: 144
"People of all races were equally rude."


In my experience, I dont know if it is a familiarity thing, but I find FL natives and long time FL residents to be friendlier than newer residents --- by far. I work with (strangely enough) about a half-dozen born and raised Floridians and loooong time residents, and all are friendly. One of the women is moody, but I wont go into that... lol. But the rest of them ask me how I'm doing everyday, ask how my family is, etc... and I find that type of friendliness absent in A LOT of the newer FL residents. Just my opinion.
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