[TriMT7]

Originally Posted by TNRyan23

Imigrants are everywhere, A better argument for you would have been the outstanding amounts of Burger Kings and McDonalds that line your roadways and provide a less than living wage for your residents.

Are you SERIOUSLY trying to compare immigration to TENNESSEE with immigration in FLORIDA? Seriously? Because I'm sure it will take me five minutes to show you're comparing two states where the numbers aren't even CLOSE!

Originally Posted by TNRyan23

I'm not going to argue against a statistic and I'm not going to run away from someone elses point. Yes, We have a higher ranking but we're BOTH still in the top 10.

Lol, so what happened to the original position posted by either yourself or BacktoFL? "Less crime?"

Originally Posted by TNRyan23

Illegals do more than picking oranges, Almost all of our building industry has been nothing but illegal workers for over a decade. ( That I personally know of. )

Lol, as if the situation is any different in Florida? Where has MORE construction and growth happened over the past decade? TN or FL?

Originally Posted by TNRyan23

You've just made my point... Memphis is our problem. You have Orlando, Jacksonville, AND Miami, we're talking 20% of our population and over 40% of yours.

Again, Florida has 19 million people to TN's 6 million. Of COURSE we're going to have more big cities with crime problems!

Originally Posted by TNRyan23

That comment shows truley how little you know of other states and esp. Tennessee. There are more rednecks and hillbillies, as you put it, living in the backwoods of Florida than the entire state of Tennessee. Oh, and these rednecks and hillbillies created the blues, created rock and roll, created barbeque. Oh yeah, and those hillbillies as you put it, Are also partly responsible for the liberation of Texas from Mexico as well crushing the British in New Orleans in the war of 1812. I guess you were too busy learning about Indian casinos in Florida history class ?

Yeah, and the "gangstas" created jazz, make better barbecue, and ACTUALLY created rock and roll and the blues... which was later co-opted by your hillbillies. Their ancestors also toiled and slaved for the hillbillies, and the hillbillies fought a war to try to keep the gangstas enslaved.... which might be why Memphis and Jacksonville, etc. continue to be the center of crime in both states.


Guess you were too busy playing "thank god I'm a country boy" while trying to fit in as a FL native to TN to have noticed?

[TNRyan23]

Originally Posted by TriMT7

Guess you were too busy playing "thank god I'm a country boy" while trying to fit in as a FL native to TN to have noticed?

Meh, You're not fun anymore and your humor is lacking, Must be the heat to the brain..

I've never lived in the country and as far as my being a native.. I'd give it away in a second. I'm more ashamed to tell people of my birth state than anything. Floridians have a horrible reputation outside of Sunshine State and unfortunatly for Floridians, the reputation is true.

Sit back and make hillbilly jokes while you and your neighbors continue to lose their homes, jobs, sanity, ect, ect and continue to talk about how great it is and how great the weather is.

I'll continue to enjoy my seasons and see my neighbors prosper.

You can have the year-a-round 80+ degrees, I don't want it.

[Wild Style]

Originally Posted by TriMT7

If there's "no dispute" and no sense discussing it, then there is no point in contuing the thread, other to satisfy the regular Eyores on this board who fancy themselves tough talk realists and economic analysts.



My point was to throw some cold water of REALITY on people on this board, often from OTHER STATES who seem to think the economic problems are peculiar or unique to Florida.

But I guess I should be apologizing for interrupting this "woe is me and the trials and tribulations of the state" thread. Go ahead, continue on.



"Dude," actually the article did no such thing. If you had actually read the article to completion:

California's 8.4 percent unemployment rate remains the third-highest in the nation after 9.6 percent in Michigan, fueled by troubles in the auto industry, and 9.4 percent in Rhode Island, which has been hit with sharp declines in manufacturing.

The point was to illustrate how funny it is to see other people from states doing as bad as Florida (such as Arizona the home state of the poster who found it useful to lament lack of jobs in Florida). It also shows that the "Meccas" of malcontented Floridians, such as NC and SC, are similarly facing problems, and that miserable people trying to "escape" hard times in Florida will likewise find them elsewhere.

from the article:

As bad as the news was for California, it was even worse for other parts of the country. California's 0.9 percent job loss in November was below the 1.4 percent national average.


A number of states – including some that have been touted as low-cost, low-wage alternatives to California – fared much worse. Arizona lost 3.1 percent of its jobs; Michigan, 2.7 percent; Florida, 2.6 percent; Oregon, 1.9 percent; and North Carolina, 1.7 percent.

Florida is already a little above 7% and if it keeps up with these numbers it will easily surpass California so again you proved that person's point. Either way, you seemed to have lost the plot. No one is arguing that the entire country isn't in trouble. Some places will do worse than others and with Florida's limited economy I doubt it is going to be among the states which sustain less damage than others. Florida will continue to see population declines and one can only hope the politicians can figure something out (i doubt it)

[Tungsten_Udder]

Originally Posted by BornInFL

"Oh? So someone moving to Nashville from, say, Satellite Beach Florida is going to experience "less people/congestion/traffic?" Really?"


No, of course not. You and I both know that. But overall, what I stated is true, but of course it will depend on what city they lived in in FL and what city they are moving to in TN. But 9 out of 10 times, they will experience less traffic/people/congestion.

Should we try to make a list for that, starting with the congestion for Florida for:

Abe Springs
Achan
Adam
Adams
Adams Beach
Adamsville (near Wildwood)
Adamsville (Tampa/St. Pete area)
Agricola . . .
etc.

I bet you've done that already, lol.

Of course, we also can't forget that different people like different things. Some folks actually like denser urban atmospheres, and wouldn't want to live in the "country" or sparser suburbia.

[Tungsten_Udder]

Originally Posted by BornInFL

LOL, OK. How much time have you spent living in TN/NC/SC to say that FL pays higher, schools perform better, and its safer? What part of TN/SC/NC did you live in to know from first-hand experience, rather than stats found on the net?

Wait, are you suggesting that you've also lived in South Carolina and Tennessee?

[TNRyan23]

I've seen worse traffic in Nashville than I have in Tampa or Orlando. The only difference is that it's more compacted rather than spread out.

Metro-Nashville/Davidson County is mostly urban, there are country areas between Nashville/Clarksville but the area between Nashville-Murfreesboro is really starting to grow and will soon enough be a massive metro area which is pretty good since MTSU is starting to become the largest University in the state.

We have some pretty rural areas, esp. in East Tennessee up in the mountains though.

Tungsten said it best... " Of course, we also can't forget that different people like different things. "

[Tungsten_Udder]

Originally Posted by BornInFL

Sorry, but your example of someone moving from TN TO FL kinda threw me off... Nashville is cheap to live in (housing). So I doubt that $1k would make a big difference when a home in Tampa averages out to $272k and Nashville is quite a bit cheaper...

I just did a search for single family homes from 50k to 200k, within 5 miles of Tampa and Nashville, at least 3 bedrooms and 2 bathroms, and at least 2000 square feet. Nashville had 313, but Tampa had 133, too. The range of homes available looked similar. If you keep all the criteria the same but bring the top price down to 100k, Nashville has 11 and Tampa has 9.

It doesn't seem that Tampa would be significantly more difficult to find a comparable home in for the same amount of money.

[TNRyan23]

Originally Posted by Tungsten_Udder

I just did a search for single family homes from 50k to 200k, within 5 miles of Tampa and Nashville, at least 3 bedrooms and 2 bathroms, and at least 2000 square feet. Nashville had 313, but Tampa had 133, too. The range of homes available looked similar. If you keep all the criteria the same but bring the top price down to 100k, Nashville has 11 and Tampa has 9.

It doesn't seem that Tampa would be significantly more difficult to find a comparable home in for the same amount of money.

Now compare taxes, homeowners insurance, and energy costs....

Oh, and BTW, the large majority of houses in Nashville are outside of the city limits.

edit: http://www.nashvillesmls.com/nashville-mls.php

I'm showing 632 in the Metro-Area that fit your criteria...

[Tungsten_Udder]

Originally Posted by TNRyan23

Now compare taxes, homeowners insurance, and energy costs....

Taxes would take more research than I want to do for this for free at the moment, because then we also have to compare how much of your taxes you can write off in each location, and that's going to take some research for me for Tennessee, because I have no idea. The amount that you can write off your taxes is a big factor, as you're not losing that money, you're just delaying it.

For insurance, I've only got quick access to data for county estimates for Florida. In Hillsborough County, I've got data for 26 insurance companies. The low end is $550 per year from Florida Farm Bureau Casualty Insurance Company, with max wind mitigation, and the highest of the 26 is State Farm (who I know in some counties isn't writing new policies), at $2584 with no wind mitigation. The exact amount that your policy may be depends on a large number of factors that make it difficult to generalize more than that. Again, I'd have to do a lot of research for free to get the Tennessee estimates . . . and I'm not sure what the pay-off would be, because the anti-Florida folks will just rationalize the data so that Florida is worse somehow, no matter what the data might suggest.

The same is true for energy costs, where what your energy bills will end up costing you depends on a huge number of factors aside from what the kilowatt hour rate is from the local supplier.

[TNRyan23]

Originally Posted by Tungsten_Udder

Taxes would take more research than I want to do for this for free at the moment, because then we also have to compare how much of your taxes you can write off in each location, and that's going to take some research for me for Tennessee, because I have no idea. The amount that you can write off your taxes is a big factor, as you're not losing that money, you're just delaying it.

For insurance, I've only got quick access to data for county estimates for Florida. In Hillsborough County, I've got data for 26 insurance companies. The low end is $550 per year from Florida Farm Bureau Casualty Insurance Company, with max wind mitigation, and the highest of the 26 is State Farm (who I know in some counties isn't writing new policies), at $2584 with no wind mitigation. The exact amount that your policy may be depends on a large number of factors that make it difficult to generalize more than that. Again, I'd have to do a lot of research for free to get the Tennessee estimates . . . and I'm not sure what the pay-off would be, because the anti-Florida folks will just rationalize the data so that Florida is worse somehow, no matter what the data might suggest.

The same is true for energy costs, where what your energy bills will end up costing you depends on a huge number of factors aside from what the kilowatt hour rate is from the local supplier.

I don't know the specifics either, I know when I was a kid living in Florida 12 years ago, We lived in Hillsborough in an 1,100 sqft house that cost $155k in Brandon built in 1992. Our property taxes were $2,350 and our homeowners was around $2,200. and this was in 1999/2000ish time frame. Insured through Florida Farm Bureau.

I now live in Hendersonville, TN in a 3,900 sqft. house that cost $236k built in 1997. Our property taxes are $1,100 a year and homeowners is $600/year through Tennessee Farm Bureau.

I can't say that would be true for everyone but that's a HUGE difference.

I can also say that our energy bill went from an average of around $200/mo. with TECO to an average of $110/mo. with NES.

also a huge difference when totaled up for the year.