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Old 12-14-2007, 10:36 AM
 
Location: downtown Sarasota
4,723 posts, read 12,398,214 times
Reputation: 2029

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What I make now, in 2007, after 3 years of employment, I made in 1985 when I was 25 and worked in NYC.

Right now....I make $13.65/hour & work in property management on Longboat Key and I'm not an illegal alien.

I have a degree in ADV from Michigan State. My condo association loves me because I am on the ball....however, I was married, came to FL in 1991 with my husband, built a house, had children & then got divorced....

Right to work in Florida means they can fire you because you wore a pink shirt....not right....people can quit a job anytime they want & it doesn't have to be a right to work situation....

we all know that northern states pay more than Florida...it's just a matter of making enough money to get out of Florida to move...hello?
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Old 12-14-2007, 10:45 AM
 
Location: southern california
55,562 posts, read 74,435,804 times
Reputation: 47979
this was a good post. you got rep. nobody liked this post did they? strong antiunion sentiment in america.
affluence and prosperity were brought to this country thru union and absence of such will take us back where we came from. our government is actively involved in union and labor busting. 23 million illegals since last amnesty present. france's youth is fighting the battle of their life thru the unions to keep their jobs from being out resourced or taken by immigrants. (the 5 year rule) the immigrants are attacking the students when they demonstrate for their future jobs. do we demonstrate for unions or even belong? no we do not. we are sinking to the bottom of the swimming pool smiling.
money does that to you. remember your grandparents talkin about picken peaches for 5 cents a bushel? well soon it wont be poor mexican people doin it when you look out on those fields, its guna be us.

Last edited by Huckleberry3911948; 12-14-2007 at 10:48 AM.. Reason: typo
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Old 12-14-2007, 11:00 AM
 
2,313 posts, read 2,395,014 times
Reputation: 471
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladywithafan View Post
What I make now, in 2007, after 3 years of employment, I made in 1985 when I was 25 and worked in NYC.

Right now....I make $13.65/hour & work in property management on Longboat Key and I'm not an illegal alien.

I have a degree in ADV from Michigan State. My condo association loves me because I am on the ball....however, I was married, came to FL in 1991 with my husband, built a house, had children & then got divorced....

Right to work in Florida means they can fire you because you wore a pink shirt....not right....people can quit a job anytime they want & it doesn't have to be a right to work situation....

we all know that northern states pay more than Florida...it's just a matter of making enough money to get out of Florida to move...hello?
You know, you jogged my memory a little. In 1972 I was making around 50 a year working construction in South Florida as a union crane operator. You could buy a new car with a few weeks pay. Things have really flip flopped over the years. It takes two people with two good jobs now to just survive. Go figure, you don't even know what to tell a young person today, most feel they will never own anything. I bought my first house single and in my twenties.
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Old 12-14-2007, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Huntsville, Alabama
339 posts, read 1,049,465 times
Reputation: 96
A few years ago I was working at a call center when Verizon went on strike. We were trained to replace the striking workers during the strike. We would be paid $7 an hour without benifits to do the work of the strikers who normally got paid at least twice as much and had benifits. I have had good benifits all of my life because of unions. I felt that being a scab would only add to the lack of medical coverage american workers face - so I quit. I have a problem with companies that outsource to avoid paying people a living wage. Some times outsourcing means sending calls to India, some times it means taking advantage of the low wages in Florida.
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Old 12-15-2007, 04:00 PM
LM1
 
Location: NEFL/Chi, IL
833 posts, read 756,702 times
Reputation: 344
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnulus View Post
I disagree about Unions. GM and Chrysler's problems have less to do with unions, and more to do with the fact they make vehicles that, increasingly, people do not want to buy. If they made fuel efficient cars that were cool, like the Japanese, they would be doing alot better. Japanese automakers OTOH, take a longer-range approach beyond immediate profits.
The impending death of the American autos has to do with a number of factors. Poor engineering and terrible comparative reliability to their Japanese competitors is a big part of it. "Bleh" aesthetic stylings play a role as well.

With that said, Unions were an ENORMOUS contributor to US automakers inability to remain competitive and profitable. When a man turning a screw is making $45 an hour with a full retirement package and a $8,000 annual health plan or when a terribly performing engineer or designer cannot be fired because of their "union contract", these things cause big, big operative problems for the parent company. When the company is totally handcuffed to grossly overpaid labor and cannot move to more competitive markets, this contributes too.
When GM spends more on healthcare for their retired workers than they do on the various metals they use to actually make the cars, this is a HUGE problem.

And they think they have it bad now? After a couple short decades of getting their asses kicked by Japan?

Wait until China, Brazil and India enter the game and start selling consistently 150K-200K mile cars for under $7,000 MSRP. (they're already tooled up and making them, they just aren't importing them into the US yet). Japan will feel the squeeze, the US autos will simply die- or at the very best, be reduced to selling the occasional status-symbol gas guzzlers and fleet vehicles to the US government (which is pretty much where they're at right now)

No... Sorry... The interplay between unions and the US Automakers is a case-study in "labor rights" gone way, way too far. Florida and other "right to work" states are a case-study in labor rights gone too far in the other direction (by American standards of living, anyway).
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Old 12-15-2007, 05:04 PM
 
226 posts, read 1,104,896 times
Reputation: 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by discontented lot owner View Post
Ive been in Florida since l987. I remember in S. California seeing adds on TV mentioning that Orlando had more jobs than people which was very correct-IF YOU DONT MIND MAKING 4 TO 5 BUCKS AN HOUR IN THE HUMID HOT SUN WORKING HARD LABOR CONSTRUCTION. Of course Florida was a very cheap place to live back then.
FLORIDA AINT CHEAP NO MORE Would it be out of line to ask for a higher wage???
Does everyone feel (except you cheapskate wealthy employers that will NEVER pay a decent wage)that Florida would really be better off as a UNION STATE since we have already proven that right to work eliminates the middle class, and only benefits the SLAVE MASTERS.????
you could also add only benefits the illegal and legal workers from outside the USA that fill in that vacuum. With the RE implosion in Fla., and all the foreclosures, perhaps they WILL rethink that proposition. Florida is actually more unaffordable than California now, considering the far lower wage rate in Florida. They seem to think snowbirds and tourists can carry the state, but that holds less weight now than ever.......they have to REALLY rethink the entire economic base in fla., and if the state can sustain itself with the local/tourist mix.....maybe unions would be the best thing at this point.
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Old 12-15-2007, 05:13 PM
 
226 posts, read 1,104,896 times
Reputation: 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWingsFan View Post
You are really stretching it...

No, Union's kill companies...take a look at what's happening with the auto industry, they are largely to blame.

I've lived in right to work states for a long time and think they are just fine. An employer should be able to give you the boot anytime and you should be able to quit anytime.
Unions CREATED the middle-class in the 40's - 70's per blue collar workers. If it wasn't for them, blue-collar folks would always have made crap wages. Unions were the only source of strengh/bargaining power for laborers, and, without it, you bring us back to the robber baron, pre-OSHA days, which we essentially are now. States that are right-to-work usually also have the worst EPA standards, as corporations have carte blanche. Look at Texas, which burns army nerve gas over port arthur, and mega-carcinogens over Houston per refineries........If it was up to corporations, we'd ALL be living hand-to-mouth. We are close to that point right now, per the credit situation.
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Old 12-15-2007, 05:24 PM
 
226 posts, read 1,104,896 times
Reputation: 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by d070033 View Post
In a simple response....HELL NO! While I agree that the wages need to be adjusted and some employers are down right exploiting their labor, the last thing Florida needs is a strong union presence. Unions may be chartered to represent the worker but what they really do is drive the cost of goods and materials up, create hostile work environments, stifle competition and drive a wedge in communication between the workforce and management. Unions may have had their place in the 40's, 50's, 60's and 70's but its time to look at the paradigm of employee-employer relations in a different context that does not reinforce the assumptions of us versus them. It doesn't work anymore.
NJ and Nevada, both heavily unionized, are two of the best job markets in the USA, and Vegas, which is heavily union, though a right-to-work state, has been booming for years....chicago has thrived with a union base for years as well....it is not mutually exclusive to have unions AND prosperity....on the contrary, right-to-work states lean heavily towards service/unskilled jobs, and tourism........Florida has a lethargic economy right now, and is hurting per RE because of the low pay rate directly caused by the lack of unions...Europe is more unionized than the USA, and has a more dynamic economy and currency value....explain that one!
http://www.dbsv.org/engl/euro_s.gif (broken link)
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Old 12-15-2007, 05:36 PM
 
Location: Huntsville, Alabama
339 posts, read 1,049,465 times
Reputation: 96
Ladywithafan
The most I've made in Florida is equal to what I made in 1990 in Washington State. Since living here I've gotten a BA and still struggle to find full time work that comes close to what I left in Washington. Solution - I'm leaving Florida. When I was a kid my dad's union went on strike once and a few years ago the union my husband was with went on strike. Both times it was over benifits - if there was no union our benifits would have been next to nill.
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Old 12-15-2007, 05:45 PM
 
226 posts, read 1,104,896 times
Reputation: 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by LM1 View Post
The impending death of the American autos has to do with a number of factors. Poor engineering and terrible comparative reliability to their Japanese competitors is a big part of it. "Bleh" aesthetic stylings play a role as well.

With that said, Unions were an ENORMOUS contributor to US automakers inability to remain competitive and profitable. When a man turning a screw is making $45 an hour with a full retirement package and a $8,000 annual health plan or when a terribly performing engineer or designer cannot be fired because of their "union contract", these things cause big, big operative problems for the parent company. When the company is totally handcuffed to grossly overpaid labor and cannot move to more competitive markets, this contributes too.
When GM spends more on healthcare for their retired workers than they do on the various metals they use to actually make the cars, this is a HUGE problem.

And they think they have it bad now? After a couple short decades of getting their asses kicked by Japan?

Wait until China, Brazil and India enter the game and start selling consistently 150K-200K mile cars for under $7,000 MSRP. (they're already tooled up and making them, they just aren't importing them into the US yet). Japan will feel the squeeze, the US autos will simply die- or at the very best, be reduced to selling the occasional status-symbol gas guzzlers and fleet vehicles to the US government (which is pretty much where they're at right now)

No... Sorry... The interplay between unions and the US Automakers is a case-study in "labor rights" gone way, way too far. Florida and other "right to work" states are a case-study in labor rights gone too far in the other direction (by American standards of living, anyway).
Unions did not single-handedly destroy anything. Again, they helped strengthen american labor for many years. Yes, they were not perfect, and threw their power around occasionally, but so did, and does, the corporations, who incidentally, directly and indirectly control the political environment, government agencies such as the EPA, and too many others to mention. When management was able to jetison the unions per Reagan in the early 80's, they acted ASAP, and moved as much off-shore to expedite the process, not to mention jump-starting Nafta, and trade with China and India. Unions fought bloody wars for years in the 30's-40's to be recognized, and had pinkerton cops infiltrated in union halls for years, hired by corporations. If it was single-handledly up to the corporation, and unions were completely disbanded, they would happily destroy the middle class, which is well on its way right now........
http://www.siptu.ie/media/Media,3435,en.jpg (broken link)

BTW, would you prefer your company decides whether to retain you or get rid of you carte blanche? I would imagine that
most folks would like something to stand in the way of management sending out pink slips at will. I don't get any more
sleep thinking that corporation man is unencumbered of unions.........just think of it, without unions, you are totally beholden
to the "good graces" of corporate management and the gov't that is in their back pocket....
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