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Old 06-23-2006, 12:27 AM
 
24 posts, read 111,375 times
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Default Myths About Sinkholes in Spring Hill - Part 1

Myths:

1. There is no rhyme or reason of sinkholes
2. Sinkholes happen without warning
3. They are primarily in Spring Hill, Florida
4. All sinkholes swalloe and destroy houses and property

Truths:

Myth 1 the real truth:

Sinkholes are a natural and common geologic feature in areas underlain rock types that are soluble in natural water. In Florida, the most common of these soluble rock types are limestone and dolomite. The term sinkhole is used for closed depressions in the land surface that are formed by surficial solution or by subsidence or collapse of surficial materials owing to the solution of near-surface limestone or other soluble rocks.
Sinkholes occur in a variety of shapes from steep-walled "natural wells" to funnel-shaped or bowl-shaped depressions. Sinkholes are a product of solution-erosion processes and are analogous to valleys carved by rivers in areas underlain by insoluble clastic rocks. Just as rivers constantly erode the land surface by carrying away particles of rocks a grain at a time, limestone is carried slowly away in chemical solution an ion at a time. The ions carried by water that percolates through cavities and conduits that were developed by solution of the limestone along fracture systems, bedding places, and other permeable zones in the rock. Surface erosion by rivers is well understood and subject to some control by man, but the detection of cavities at depth and predication of potential sinkhole collapse is inherently difficult.
Sinkholes are of interest in Florida because they are one of the predominant landform feature of the State; because they may cause flooding during storms when the drainage capacity of natural subsurface conduits is exceeded; and because they may provide an avenue for pollutants on the land surface to move rapidly is to describe the geologic and hydrologic features controlling the development of sinkholes so that sinkholes and their related problems may be better understood.

Where are the sinkholes located in Florida?

http://www.dep.state.fl.us/geology/p...kholetype3.pdf

Myth 2 Truth SINKHOLE WARNING SIGNS
Fresh exposures on fence posts, foundations and trees that result when the ground sinks.
Slumping, sagging or slanting fence posts, trees or other objects.
Doors and windows that fail to close properly.
Small ponds of rainfall forming where it has not collected before.
Wilting of small, circular areas of vegetation. This happens because moisture is draining away into a sinkhole developing below the surface.
Muddy water in nearby wells.
Cracks in walls, floors, pavement and in the ground. (Please keep in mind with any new home there is going to be a setting that occurs and minor cracks in the concrete will happen because of the settling of the foundation)
Increased numbers of sinkholes can generally be attributed to retention ponds, new construction, changes in drainage patterns, heavy traffic, drilling vibrations or declining groundwater levels.


Myth 3 Sinkholes are primarily in Spring Hill:

In 2001 there was a large amount of sinkholes that occured due to a draught and then a heavy rain and flooding period. This location is in the map area (please see link below) indicating where these types are sinkholes occur. There were sinkholes recently that occured in May to a development just north on the same line as the ones in 2001. There were more sinkholes (in the hundreds) in Hillsborough, Pasco and Citrus county than there were in Hernando county only about 20 in a specific area. The whole central part of Florida has sinkhole issues, but only a minute amount of people compared to how many live here ever see or have a problem with them. The figure is something like .00036 of the population in Hillsborough County experience a sinkhole.

http://www.dep.state.fl.us/geology/g..._excel_exe.htm

Last edited by imabeatleslover; 06-23-2006 at 12:29 AM..
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Old 06-23-2006, 12:27 AM
 
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Part II

There are all types of sinkholes

There are sinkholes that are documented that are small. When someone says there were 54 sinkholes in Spring Hill in 2001 it doesn't mean that they each swallowed up a house.


There is a sinkhole in Lakeland right now that swallowed a lake. Seriously the lake drained...but guess what, they can fix it. They pour concrete and other things to solve these types of problems. As a native Floridian I have lived most my life in Naples, then Homestead (went through Andrew), then Orlando, Back to Naples, then Largo, then Dunnellon, then Tampa and now Spring Hill soon to be Alabama. The horror stories that the media and other people say about alligators, hurricanes and sinkholes are ridiculous. I went through a Category 5 Hurricane and my house was ground zero of where the Hurricane Hit...literally we were dead center of the eye...but I am still here. These are things you learn to live with, appreciate and take appropriate measure to insure your property, your loved ones and still live a happy life.

So before you decide to purchase anywhere in Central Florida you had better check out the location you choose with the SWFMD map of where and what types of Sink Holes are near the property you wish to purchase. Sinkholes occur up and down Florida where ever rivers run and water lies, hurricanes occur between June and November(normally), and alligators occasionally visit your home if you live next to a pond or fresh water area.

Last edited by imabeatleslover; 06-23-2006 at 12:32 AM..
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Old 06-23-2006, 06:26 AM
 
16 posts, read 58,821 times
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Default incorect statements

I was born in Florida and find some of yourstatements distrubing and to be false. Maybe you are making them as you desire to sell in Florida? Consider your statement "..horror stories that media and other people say about alligators, hurricanes and sinkholes are rediculous". Are you aware three women have recently died from gator attacks? Thank the "liberal" people who want "preserve" even the largest of gators! Finally they are waking up as more and more people die from attacks! Since when has a category 5 Hurricane hit Florida??? Even the one that flooded New Orleans and destroyed the Gulf Coast along Miss. was a 3! Your statements are apparently geared to counter legitimate fears people are now beginning to have about certain areas of Florida and your statement that people should take measures like "insure your property" and enjoy life may border on the absurd. Are you aware many insurance companies are LEAVING Florida and its not an easy thing to obtain insurance, that the cost of homeowners insurance in Florida is up over 500% since the storms and high deductable required seperate "wind insurance" is up over 200% with new increases now due every 6 months? Folks might not have too much money left over to "enjoy life"!!!
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Old 06-23-2006, 07:09 AM
 
Location: Tampa Bay
598 posts, read 1,496,149 times
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First off, There is alot of good info there on sinkholes. Thanks for that, but your tone is really downplaying the seriousness of the issues you are addressing and being a Floridian... you know these are NOT light issues. I don't understand why you would want to convince possible newcomers that everything is mere hype by the media??

You survived Andrew by the grace of God! There was utter devastation (you don't remember that??? were you really there??) and lives lost and to make it seem like it's no big deal is shameful. The hurricane season is HALF the year. An Andrew or Katrina can happen to any one of us living in Fl. Period. That's the fact.

As far as sinkholes, yes you can fix SOME of them. Very lucky for those on Scott lake that they are very wealthy people... it will cost them 10,000+ each homeowner to fix this. If this happened to a middle class community, it would devastate them financially. Being a private lake in a community means assessments. If you are unable to pay it, they forclose. And just to add a note to all those who think the insurance co. will fix everything, think again. They try to get out of paying for sinkholes just like they do the hurricanes. There are many homes around that have serious stuctural sinkhole damage that the owners are stuck with. They can't get them fixed and they can't get them sold... that is also a fact.

Oh yeah, and gators move. I found one on a 6 lane highway one night. No water in sight...

Last edited by summergal; 06-23-2006 at 07:34 AM..
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Old 06-23-2006, 10:13 AM
 
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Beachpad the only one making false statements is you. Much of the information has been researched by the Southwest Florida Water Management District.

As far as Hurricane Andrew goes...IT WAS A 5! Thank you very much! I freaking lived through it and I am very aware of the difference between a Cat 5 and a Cat 3.
In 2005 Scientists announced that they upgraded the ranking of the 1992 hurricane that killed 23 people, revealing that the storm was much stronger than previously believed. Twenty mph stronger, to be exact. Top sustained winds reached 165 mph, not 145 mph as previously estimated, according to new research by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. Under the Saffir-Simpson Hurricane Scale, Category 5 hurricanes have maximum sustained wind speeds of at least 156 mph.

Please note that these winds they are talking about were sustained that doesn't reflect the wind gusts. Over 184mph. We had professional hurricane shutters that were made to withstand winds up to 200 mph they were destroyed.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/storm/content/storm/about/history/andrew.html (broken link)

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/NOAA_pr_8-21-02.html

Yes I am selling my house....but what the media and you and others say is overexaggerated. You say three people were attacked by alligators! I ask you this: Where we were these attacks? Who were some of these people who were attacked were any of them tourists? Did they feed these alligators? Were they near water? You may say those thing don't matter, but they do! Alligator attacks are rare and here is a little article speaking about just that.

http://www.ecofloridamag.com/askedit...or_attacks.htm

http://myfwc.com/gators/faq/lwa.htm (This is a super website with a lot of information including a powerpoint slide presentation)

Do you know how many people were killed in a car accident yesterday? Or for the year? According to the Florida DOT over 3500 people had died on Florida highways by March. The fear that an alligator will attack you if you moved to Florida should be overcome by getting the right information! Like I said above, you have to be smart, informed and aware. That is why I posted this information. To inform those who are from other states what to watch out for here in Florida. If people are afraid to move to Florida because they have a picture in their mind that alligators are everywhere and running rampid it just wouldn't be fair to them and they would have the wrong information.

I'll quote from one article:

"You are right; alligator attacks are rare, with 15 to 20 reported non-fatal attacks per year and 16 total reported attacks since 1948 in Florida. Alligators are mainly nocturnal. "


I am so sorry you are so very misinformed. You don't sound like a very happy Floridian. Your insurance statements are false as well. I believe the media has seriously brainwashed you.

After Hurricane Andrew, homeowners insurance rates increased 100 percent statewide and 200 percent in southeast Florida, where insurers faced the largest potential losses from a major storm. These increases were necessary, because Andrew demonstrated hurricane insurance in Florida was significantly under-priced. Rates were fairly steady during the late 1990’s, but began to rise again recently, although nowhere near the magnitude during the post-Andrew era.

OIR reports that the top 10 private market insurers raised rates an average 2.7 percent in 2003, 22 percent in 2002, 3 percent in 2001, and 7 percent in 2000. Recent increases have been driven by higher claims payments for mold and water damage and sinkholes, plus the need for some carriers to set aside additional funds for the inevitable “Son of Andrew.”

http://www.flains.org/public/ht_irate.html-ssi (broken link)

Florida law requires homeowners insurance to cover damages to your home caused by a sinkhole. Just like car insurance, hurricane insurance and homeowners insurance there are risks and you have insurance to protect you if something happens.

What I am saying is the statistics don't lie. These events that scare people are rare. Hurricanes! Different subject. If you don't want to come to Florida because you are scared of Hurricanes I totally agree with you don't come here! Hurricanes are a TRUE threat of living in Florida and you always run the risk of having damage done by a hurricane if one comes in your direction but if you live in fear you aren't living. As humans we can not control everything and we fear what we can't control. Only you can decide how you want to live your life. The more informed you are the more secure you will feel.

Last edited by imabeatleslover; 06-23-2006 at 10:29 AM..
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Old 06-23-2006, 10:25 AM
 
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Summergal:
If you saw an alligator on a highway it was probably trying to get to water. Florida has built up so much that is the only way they have to get to their destination. They have instincts. We may not see the water, but they know where to go to get to the water any water. And sometimes those are pools, ponds, drainaige systems and lakes. They have to get there some how. Alligators are everywhere and with the draughts and low water levels some of these alligators have to move to locations where they can survive. You may not have seen water, but the alligator would know how to get there.

Last edited by imabeatleslover; 06-23-2006 at 10:31 AM..
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Old 06-23-2006, 11:11 AM
 
Location: Tampa Bay
598 posts, read 1,496,149 times
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well you just contradicted yourself. In one breath you said "If people are afraid to move to Florida because they have a picture in their mind that alligators are everywhere and running rampid it just wouldn't be fair to them and they would have the wrong information. " Then you say "Alligators are everywhere and with the draughts and low water levels some of these alligators have to move to locations where they can survive. You may not have seen water, but the alligator would know how to get there."

My point is: they ARE everywhere and not always near water. I've seen many while living here. Some in or near water, some in the middle of the concrete covered big city areas. To pretend they are not around you is just silly.

You say the insurance didn't go up over 200%? Mine more than doubled. My friend's tripled. Who's brainwashed?
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Old 06-23-2006, 12:47 PM
 
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[quote=summergal]well you just contradicted yourself. In one breath you said "If people are afraid to move to Florida because they have a picture in their mind that alligators are everywhere and running rampid it just wouldn't be fair to them and they would have the wrong information. " Then you say "Alligators are everywhere and with the draughts and low water levels some of these alligators have to move to locations where they can survive. You may not have seen water, but the alligator would know how to get there."

My point is: they ARE everywhere and not always near water. I've seen many while living here. Some in or near water, some in the middle of the concrete covered big city areas. To pretend they are not around you is just silly.

Alligators, who cares! Between 1965-2001 22 people in Florida were killed by dogs. Then of course there are the thousands of non fatal attacks. So dogs are clearly more dangerous than gators.

Besides, the sink hole in Lakeland no doubt sucked in a few gators but there are still all those dogs running around. So don't move to Florida because of the dogs???
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Old 06-23-2006, 01:55 PM
 
24 posts, read 111,375 times
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Summergal,

I never contricted myself. Did I say "People please move to Florida and pretend alligators do not exist. They are just a figment of our imagination and you'll never see them. They are like Big Foot." My point was if you are moving to Florida and are afraid of being attacked by an alligator please read this information so you can be informed of their habits and the statistics of alligator attacks. You should been informed and educated about the characteristics of an alligator and their environment to overcome the fear. When you drove pass that alligator did he try to attack your car or any other car on the road? He either made a run for it or froze...alligators are just as scared of humans as we are of them. They do get more aggressive during mating season. So being a human being capable of rational thinking, we are the ones that have to be smart if we ever encounter an alligator. Alligators were here LONG before humans were ever here. We have to adapt to their environment just like we have had to adapt in the past. People have co-exhisted with mammoths, sabor tooth tigers, cave bears, the major shifts in climate and other carnivorous creatures 1.5 million years ago and the human species still survived. How did they do this? Adaptation and rational thinking (also the ability to make fire but that is another story). I never said alligators were not here. I have seen several alligators in my life time. In my grandmothers pool, in my front yard as a child and my father lived right on the river and we saw alligators everyday. My father and husband have gone out fishing and alligators have charged their boat...BUT...my father living in Florida since the 50s knew what to do. Alligators (male or female) are territorial and fear things that are bigger than them...that includes a BOAT. So my dad started stomping down on the boat making vibrations through the water and the alligator went away.

I put these posts here to inform people of truths not opinions of alligators, hurricanes, sinkholes, insurance etc. I provided links with statistical research done by experts in the different fields of study in the different areas that were discussed in the original posts. I provided proof backing up my claims. You have your own statements that could or could not be true. Where is your proof? If your insurance doubled perhaps the value of your house went up. Maybe you purchased a new home and were originally taxed on the land only and the house improvement on the property was not adjusted until the following year. Maybe your area has been reclassified and the insurance prices needed to be adjusted. You aren't the only one paying high prices for homeowners insurance. Everyone does in Florida. That is why there are things been done to control the cost to homeowners to lower costs for catastrophic events. The prices for homes in the Naples areas are 84% above what the true value of the home are. People can not afford to live there. I understand where you are coming from in regards to the insurance, but it is all relative. The insurance rates have gone up but so has the value of homes. I bought my house and it has more than doubled worth since I bought it two years ago. If your house was originally worth $100K when you bought and then was appraised the next year at $200K then of course the insurance would double because the cost to repair or replace your house if a catastrophic event occured would have doubled as well. If you only got $100K to fix your house and it cost $200K to fix it...you would be under insured and would not be able to fix your house. I am going to copy and paste an article since it appears as if no one is reading the articles, here is what the Insurance Council Says not me about the rates increase:


After Hurricane Andrew, homeowners insurance rates increased 100 percent statewide and 200 percent in southeast Florida, where insurers faced the largest potential losses from a major storm. These increases were necessary, because Andrew demonstrated hurricane insurance in Florida was significantly under-priced. Rates were fairly steady during the late 1990’s, but began to rise again recently, although nowhere near the magnitude during the post-Andrew era.
OIR reports that the top 10 private market insurers raised rates an average 2.7 percent in 2003, 22 percent in 2002, 3 percent in 2001, and 7 percent in 2000.
I am certainly not brainwashed as I do research for a living. I never believe anything anyone tells me until I do my own research. There is always a slant to everything you read about, see on television and experience in real life. You say your insurance doubled, well that is a 100% increase. You say your neighbor's insurance tripled well that is a 200% increase. Now that the insurance company has adjusted the rates to have your home insured appropriately your rates should increase at a slower rate.

Last edited by imabeatleslover; 06-23-2006 at 02:01 PM..
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Old 06-23-2006, 05:21 PM
 
Location: Tampa Bay
598 posts, read 1,496,149 times
Reputation: 188
lmao you think we should believe the insurance councel's spew as truth. Hahaha! now that is really rather humerous.

You are trying very hard to slant things yourself. Your "proof" is 3 years old... that's BEFORE these rate increases and all the cancellations. lol If you want to believe this insurance thing as simply an "adjustment" and just part of a natural progression of doing business, you are either in denial or not really doing your research. How can you say my rates may have doubled because the home value doubled or there was an improvement or whatever? They would have to get a physical appraisal of the property to determine that. That makes absolutely no sense for them to increase their liability blindly that way. Come on, we know why the rates are skyrocketing. They just ok'd another 2% increase to bail out Poe! Doesn't have a **** thing to do with home prices. Where are we at now this year... like 96% or something? They've put up so many increases in the past few months I've lost count. lmao

Last edited by summergal; 06-23-2006 at 05:51 PM..
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