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Old 04-22-2007, 05:14 PM
 
Location: Concrete jungle where dreams are made of.
8,900 posts, read 13,191,001 times
Reputation: 1819

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kort677 View Post
people who only speak spanish, or any other foriegn language are commiting themselves to remain at the margins of society. the path to upward mobility is a command of the dominant language, in this country that is english.
you are actually doing those people a disservice by trying to speak spanish to them.

So what am I supposed to do when 25% of the parents in a classroom only know simple site words in English and can't understand at all? Some of them came very recently. Teachers' choices are: a. get a translator so you can tell the parent how their child is doing, b. learn some of their language so you can talk to them easier, c. the parents learn some English. So it's best for all 3 of those to take into effect so it's easier for all of us when it comes to parent-teacher conferences.

If you're educated enough, you may know that it's naturally harder for adults to learn languages. Up until a kid is a teenager, the brain is still learning new language patters and processing. But that stops when a person is an adult, which therefore makes it a lot more difficult to learn languages. Maybe this is why older foreigners don't know English, because it's just too difficult at their age. English is a very hard language compared to others. My kids have lots of trouble with it, imagine adults. They probably make an effort, but it isn't exactly easy for adults to learn it. Just something to think about.
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Old 04-22-2007, 05:46 PM
 
Location: Miami
4 posts, read 10,413 times
Reputation: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyMom72 View Post
Well, my Italian ancestors didn't feel the way YOURS did, but then they CHOSE to live in the "ghetto", both for social and financial reasons. My Italian grandfather came here speaking the universal language - MONEY. He was NOT dirt poor. He could have lived anywhere he wanted. In fact, he BOUGHT the brownstone in Little Italy he lived in. He started a business at first among the Italian speaking people in his neighborhood, and then branched out when his sons became old enough to help. His sons were born here and bilingual. Actually, I am the first generation who is not bilingual. I was born in 1948. My great grandfather came here in 1874. My, my what "un-Americans". lol. I will not tell you HOW my great grandfather came to this country from Italy with all that money. PONDER that one, if your ancestors were Italian.

When I grew up in Manhattan in the 1950s and 1960s we had a very large percentage of Puerto Ricans. The signs everywhere were in Spanish. On the subways people were speaking Spanish everywhere. We had a bodega on every corner. Yes, in 1968 when I first voted, the ballots were in Spanish and English. I decided to learn Spanish in school. It was a great learning experience for me. I tried to listen to conversations. I tried to read the signs. Hell, once I even used what little Spanish I had learned to help a woman on the street who was mugged. I suppose to many of this board, FOREIGN LANGUAGES should not be taught in our school at all?????

All, I can say is that MY ancestors did not rush right out to learn English as soon as they could. It just accummulated with each passing generation, until with my children the Italian language of their ancestors is totally LOST. I consider that a DAMNED SHAME.

And as I said on another post, there is no such thing as the AMERICAN language. YOU are all speaking the language of a FOREIGN COUNTRY, ENGLAND. Without the British, America would not exist. Or are you all Native Americans??????? In such case, you WOULDN'T be speaking English.
While Im sure this is a well thought out response and seemingly hostile and defensive about what time period your ancestors learned English as opposed to mine. Never have I referenced that foreign languages should not be taught in school. In fact, I don't believe anyone said anything of the sort. I have mentioned that to be bilingual is a wonderful asset, a very advantageous factor. As far as your ancestors are concerned, sure no one had to run out and learn English right away, no one is suggesting that either. I think you are adding a far greater negative spin than anyone has even suggested. The point is, your ancestors as well as anyone else from various generations have eventually made an attempt at learning the "language of the land." Whether or not this language was brought over from somewhere else has no relevance. It was founded upon English grammer, therefore for lack of a better definition, it is the native language. Even the Native Americans who were the true Natives of this country learned English, whether or not it was an unfair prospect. I really don't see how your main point has to do with the fact the this entire country was founded upon the English language brought over from the British. Similar things have happened in other parts of the world. While there may be natives on the land with one language, it is colonized by another group ,and the active language is that of those whom have colonialized the land. No one is denying anyone's right to speak another language. God bless that ability. And its clearly delusional to not believe that the language upon which the country has been based and continues is the English language. I mean thats like saying Italian is not the native language in Italy. There are many Spainards there as well, but chances are they speak Italian. No one has a problem with bodegas, no one has a problem with signs being in Spanish, America is accomodating. And in reality its not just for the Spanish, in certain parts of Miami-Dade county they accomodate for the languages that are most prevelent in the area, whether it be creole, russian, bulgarian. The city goverment acknowledges this, the citizens acknowledge this, we are very accepting. However, majority rules. That goes not only for America, but every other nation, I don't believe thats oppressive in anyway, just common sense.

In addition I wanted to repost this previous message I posted to show that the majority has spoken, not necessarily about what is the language of America, but that of Florida:

Art II. SECTION 9. English is the official language of Florida.--

(a) English is the official language of the State of Florida.

(b) The legislature shall have the power to enforce this section by appropriate legislation.

This goes along with the prospect that we have adopted an American Flag. It is representative of a national symbol. I believe the adaptation of the Constitution itself, as well as the American Flag, were all British ideals, but we adopted them as our own. Is our first president not our president because he was British? Was he any less American? All anything is really meant by being the native language of any country is majority rules. Just because, which is not even the case, there is a high rate of Spanish speaking individuals in Miami, still does not make it a majority, especiallly in terms of the entire nation. Even if this were true, there are many spanish speaking individuals who would still not believe it neccessary to change the national language to spanish.

Last edited by NewYorker18; 04-22-2007 at 05:58 PM..
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Old 04-22-2007, 05:59 PM
 
Location: Concrete jungle where dreams are made of.
8,900 posts, read 13,191,001 times
Reputation: 1819
They weren't gearing their response towards you, it was general.
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Old 04-22-2007, 06:08 PM
 
Location: Miami
4 posts, read 10,413 times
Reputation: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachael84 View Post
They weren't gearing their response towards you, it was general.
I believe her comments were in reference to a post of mine. I was simply adding a counterpoint to her response. In any case I phrased the majority of answers in the form of "ANYONE" meaning that no one on the board has made remarks of those suggested in the post, my only personal reference was the hostile nature. Additionally, we were making a comparitive relationship about Italian heritage and how each differed in their efforts to assimilate.
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Old 04-22-2007, 09:18 PM
 
Location: Naples
672 posts, read 687,152 times
Reputation: 63
"English is the official language of Florida"
- I am not surprised.

"The legislation shall have the power to enforce this section by appropriate legislation" -
Now how do they propose to enforce the speaking of English? The Language Patrol Police? Yo quiero Taco Bell gets you 30 days? Mujeres on a bathroom door = 6 months?

Ok, I won't say what I really think about these laws, or something else.
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Old 04-22-2007, 09:36 PM
 
Location: Tampa, Fl (SoHo/Hyde Park)
1,335 posts, read 4,363,586 times
Reputation: 1013
u can say whatever u want or site whatever u want but SPANISH is the official language in miami dade county...u have to speak it period. its getting that way more and more in broward and palm beach counties, the entire culture is geared towards hispanics, just the way it is here.
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Old 04-22-2007, 10:31 PM
 
2 posts, read 4,949 times
Reputation: 11
Default Maybe not the "only"

I agree South Florida can be a rough place to live nowadays. My family has lived down there for years around Ft. Lauderdale and I can see a HUGE change in the way it was as a kid and how it is now. I hate to go down there. I like cultural differences but like many others I find it annoying that, despite being born and raised here, I am basically being forced into learning a another language just to get by down there. Oh well, such is life. I live in Central Florida now and this is where I believe Florida's "other" problem lies. We have the LARGEST population of senior citizens in the nation! I have nothing against seniors but having SO many in a concentrated area is a bit annoying too! Many of them are very nice and amicable people....it's the ones who retire from elsewhere and come down here with their nasty, hateful attitudes I can't stand. They think the world revolves around their asses I swear. (We won't mention the driving problems here.) I am seriously thinking of moving out of state for the first time in my life (I'm 32 now). Florida is essentially only good for Tourists, Seniors, and Spring Breakers anymore. On top of that....EVERYTHING in Florida is overpriced like crazy! I think I want out!
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Old 04-22-2007, 11:05 PM
 
Location: Tampa, Fl (SoHo/Hyde Park)
1,335 posts, read 4,363,586 times
Reputation: 1013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevah75 View Post
I agree South Florida can be a rough place to live nowadays. My family has lived down there for years around Ft. Lauderdale and I can see a HUGE change in the way it was as a kid and how it is now. I hate to go down there. I like cultural differences but like many others I find it annoying that, despite being born and raised here, I am basically being forced into learning a another language just to get by down there. Oh well, such is life. I live in Central Florida now and this is where I believe Florida's "other" problem lies. We have the LARGEST population of senior citizens in the nation! I have nothing against seniors but having SO many in a concentrated area is a bit annoying too! Many of them are very nice and amicable people....it's the ones who retire from elsewhere and come down here with their nasty, hateful attitudes I can't stand. They think the world revolves around their asses I swear. (We won't mention the driving problems here.) I am seriously thinking of moving out of state for the first time in my life (I'm 32 now). Florida is essentially only good for Tourists, Seniors, and Spring Breakers anymore. On top of that....EVERYTHING in Florida is overpriced like crazy! I think I want out!
where in central florida do u live? i live outside ft lauderdale in coconut creek and it is a ZOO in broward county. i'm moving to Tampa next month and hoping it will be much better up there....if not i am out of florida as well
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Old 04-23-2007, 07:40 AM
 
541 posts, read 1,813,727 times
Reputation: 428
Is is sad that a lot of the countries where immigrants are coming from (like Mexico) are so weathly in natural resources, money, etc.. yet they can't pay these people a decent wage to live? What is wrong with the leaders there???! They need to take care of their own people. I am sure many of them would love to stay in their own countries.
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Old 04-23-2007, 08:13 AM
 
Location: Tampa, Fl (SoHo/Hyde Park)
1,335 posts, read 4,363,586 times
Reputation: 1013
very true, especially brazil and venezueala. most hispanics in south florida are unbelieveably loyal to their home countries. they have their countries flag usually hanging from their rear view mirror or bumper stickers and wear shirts from home and Often express the only reason they come to florida or the US is to escape a closed society, corrupt govt, dangerous life and plain inability to earn money. it is sad and often prevents thesed people from embracing american culture, they dont want to live here and are sometimes very angry about their lifes plight. hey, it must be tough to have to flee your home but it makes for a really odd mix of battling ethnicities in south florida, many of whom really dont like or respect eachother
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