[KathyA11]

[quote=Retiredcoach;8971844]

Originally Posted by KathyA11

On the contrary, you will need all of the above. When your neighbors and other members of your community suffer through the lack of job opportunities, poor schools, poor wages, lousy cultural amenities, and/or missing public transportation, your entire community will pay the costs. Desperate times will create desperate people and denigrated communities are not far behind. Personally, I would have great guilt driving from my gated community in my luxury car past those who have little hope and less opportunity. Sorry, but you are completely wrong.... Florida deserves better than those that do not wish to make it a better place for all.

And you completely misinterpreted my post. Man, the way people make assumptions around here, and put words into other people's mouths....

We personally do not need the above -- we're retiring, and don't need jobs, or to put children in schools, since, after nearly 30 years of marriage, we remain childless. But I didn't say no one else did. And, as the product of the NJ public school system, I have no problem with paying for public schools for the public good. And I'm certainly not rich -- and have no intention of moving to an exclusive gated community or driving a luxury car -- I've never lived like that and I wouldn't, even if our financial circumstances allowed.

But Florida isn't the only region missing what you mention above -- though, if you read the posts here, you would certainly think it was.

[KathyA11]

Originally Posted by psouth

It's simple. The dreamers, transients, people who think they can get rich without working a normal job, snakeoil salesman, etc., and of course illegals all like warm weather. Florida perfectly fits the bill for them because of the tourism and labor and other unskilled jobs that are aplenty. How would they ever make it in NYC or Boston or another highly skilled and educated area?

You're ignoring the people who already made it in those areas and now want a change.

[mango23]

Originally Posted by psouth

CA has the largest port in the country if not maybe the world. Crane operators are highly skilled. They have quotas to meet and ions of responsibility to not damage cargo or lives. If you have ever seen what these guys do it's pretty amazing. They sit hundreds of feet in the air while coordinating the whole show based on all kinds of quotas and time frames. Not an easy job and stressful. They have to unload ship after ship around the clock on schedule. A friend of mine does this and he makes $80 plus per hour straight time. They are actually looking for more but can't find qualified people who can handle the stress and get the job done properly. Florida just does not have any of these jobs. You cannot compare these guys to unskilled workers on an auto assembly line. Anyone high shool kid can just show up and do those jobs.

A lot of that money you are expressing in hourly pay is not in the paycheck. It goes to benefits. I used to be a union crane operator. I specialized in pouring concrete and it was very stressful. The night before a big pour I would could not sleep. I am swinging a two ton bucket across a deck full of finishers trusting their lives to me knowing I know what I am doing. Not to mention the pressure of the trucks backing up with concrete that will go bad if I can't keep up a pace and get the job done. It was nothing for the builder to come over and give us $500.00 tips after a successful pour. Not tearing up steel, losing trucks of concrete, damaging decks that have to be repaired and stopping the job. Getting done on time and finishers able to get their work done saving the builder thousands of dollars.

A crane operator can't fake it like a plumber, or carpenter who can make mistakes and just fix them. We can't fix our mistakes if we turn over a crane like you see on the news now and then. It is a highly skilled job with a ton of responsibility.
By the way, those electric cranes you see at the ports or handling materials in a factory are actually easy to run. No real skills needed. Just show the guy what to do and he can run it in a short time.

[KathyA11]

Originally Posted by TriMT7

It's like NYC trying to claim fame for not having strip malls and sprawl, as if their geography and age of development would have allowed it even if they wanted to.

Parts of NYC actually have both -- NYC isn't just Manhattan, you know. There are 4 other boroughs, and Staten Island used to be open and undeveloped. When I was a teen, I used to go horseback riding on the site of what is now the West Shore Expressway.

[KathyA11]

Originally Posted by psouth

There are some on these Florida threads advocating people to move to Florida where anyone can get rich magically. I would hope they are just wasting time on their hands and trying to just get a reaction from people who live in Florida and know the truth. As you stated, Florida is no place to move to without a job not now and not ever.

And do you think NJ or NY are?

They will just sweat to death in the heat and humidity since they would not be able to afford the $250 per month summer electric bills.

I hate to tell you what my winter heating bills are -- for a small single-family home. And our summer electric bills are pretty darned expensive -- for a house with window units, not central air.

[gypsychic]

Originally Posted by psouth

The main problem in Florida is the economy and lack of real jobs. Other areas like CA, Las Vegas, etc. always had jobs and built industry. CA is the 7th largest economy in the whole world. It has industry galore and not just the movie industry per se. When things pick up again other areas like SC, NC, GA, CA, TX will be humming since they have diverse economies. Florida on the other hand has always been sputtering since the economy is one-sided and there is no diversity. When things pick up it will just be the same old same old with the same low paying jobs. Nothing new is coming to Florida. It is remaining the same and still waiting for construction and real estate and tourism to return. Big deal.

There are some on these Florida threads advocating people to move to Florida where anyone can get rich magically. I would hope they are just wasting time on their hands and trying to just get a reaction from people who live in Florida and know the truth. As you stated, Florida is no place to move to without a job not now and not ever. They will just sweat to death in the heat and humidity since they would not be able to afford the $250 per month summer electric bills.

By the way, I know people in Las Vegas and yes Vegas is definitely known for attracting transients and crazies like Florida gets. How could it not with all the gambling? The point is the cost of living in Las Vegas is much lower than Florida and the jobs pay at least double at the same time. Florida salaries are an absolute joke compared to most places outside of the third world. One educated person from Las Vegas I know was making $20 per hour there and she is now making $8 per hour in Florida with no benefits. She got suckered by the weather and beaches in Florida like the zillions of others.

It's the law of supply and demand - lots of people want to come to Florida to live, and will work for lower wages to be here.

California has a much higher unemployment rate than Florida.

Google - public data

And the pay is not that great despite what you say - just go read their forums - almost NO ONE can make it out there. Whereas, it really is relatively easy to make it in Florida. I know plenty of people of all ages doing just fine, many on relatively small salaries. Other than HOI, everything here is pretty darn cheap. CA is one of the most expensive places in the country to live, and not just housing. There are also plenty of articles on the web about how the state of California is near bankruptcy.

Nobody here "sweats to death" with huge AC bills - heating bills up north are 2 - 3 times or more higher than anything any of us pay. I don't even run AC for well over half the year.

I don't know why you have such a huge chip on your shoulder about Florida, if you hate this state so much why don't you just leave already and go to one of the oh-so-wonderful other states you are already touting? Every single one of your posts that I have ever read here has been full of mistruths and gross exaggerations, and at this point I think the only reason I or anyone else here even bothers to respond to them is because we have to keep a balance here so the new people interested in learning about our wonderful state can get a balanced view.

[Mike Peterson]

Originally Posted by psouth

You are still much better off somewhere more expensive with a good job, benefits, and retirement. Most jobs in Florida are 25-50% less and many with no benefits whatsoever. Many also do not offer advancement which is important. It's always important to grow and learn new things for future employment opportunities. Crane operators in CA make $80-$100 per hour. Yes, that is per hour. And with great benefits. Try making that in Florida. Making $20 per hour in Florida is nowhere near the same. Your life would suck in comparison.

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics Cali is not even in the top 5 for crane operators.

State Employment Hourly mean wage Annual mean wage Percent of State employment
Alaska 190 $35.70 $74,260 0.062%
Nevada 510 $32.05 $66,670 0.040%
Hawaii 130 $31.73 $66,010 0.021%
Washington 1,430 $29.93 $62,240 0.050%
New York 1,340 $28.05 $58,340 0.016%

They do have the top 2 metro areas at around $34 Hr but not $80-$100

The hourly mean in Cali is $27.53, in Fla it is $20.86

Alot less expensive to live here also.

[Doctor Octagon]

Originally Posted by Mike Peterson

So all places that are cold have low crime and high income level and hot areas have high crime and bad schools.

Guess I will have to move to Detroit.

Only problem is the crime rate would probably be 10 times as high as where I am now and the schools 10 times worse.

Your statements do not even hold true for cities let alone a whole state.

Yes, that is what I meant, exactly. States where it's cold have little crime and warmer states have high crime.

[Mike Peterson]

Originally Posted by Doctor Octagon

Yes, that is what I meant, exactly. States where it's cold have little crime and warmer states have high crime.

I thought that was what you said because it was in black and white for me to see.

"If you look at those states, they are cold, but offer low crime, high income level, better quality of life. Look at states where it's warm and are "hot-spots" where people are drawn to for warm weather... places like FL, NM, Arizona... all have high crime rates, bad schools, etc."

Don't make blanket statements if you don't want people questioning them.

[Doctor Octagon]

Originally Posted by KathyA11

It's enough for me. And unless you've lived through decades of soul-killing winters, you really don't understand what they're like.

And changing seasons are highly overrated. Once we move to Florida, we never want to experience another winter.

LOL! I hope you like it and feel that way years from now. Seasons are nice imo, constant warmth is over-rated imo. It hit 97 degrees in early May already.