[annerk]

Originally Posted by Retiredcoach

Point well taken. To the person standing on the outside, however, it projects more an image of snobbery and "I am so much better than you" mentality.

Then I guess person who is thinking that needs to work on their self-esteem.

[psouth]

Originally Posted by TriMT7

Please cite a counter-source to my independently verifiable sources cited above that shows the Florida economy "mostly" (50% +) dependent on construction and tourism and real estate. By the figures I have quoted above:

Percent of jobs in the total Florida workforce, by industry:

Natural Resources & Mining -- 1.2%
Construction -- 7.5%
Manufacturing -- 4.9%
Trade, Transportation and Utilities -- 20.9%
Information -- 2.0%
Financial Activities -- 6.8%
Professional & Business Services -- 16.6%
Education & Health Services -- 18.9%
Leisure & Hospitality -- 11.8%
Other Services -- 3.2%
Public administration -- 5.9%
Unclassified 0.1% 0.1%

Statistics are fine and dandy but do not tell the whole story. Sometimes you need to just look around and talk to many people in the area to get the full story. I cannot believe construction is only 7.5% in Florida with all the commercial and residential construction that has gone on. Florida was one of the top construction states in the whole country. It seemed like everywhere you looked something was being built. Tourism is only 11.8%? Hotels and restaurants are everywhere and a Florida staple. I don't know about these. It is hard to believe that manufacturing is almost even with construction. But whatever.

As I said before you need only to look around and talk with people to find out the truth. I know people who moved from Las Vegas. They were renting a nice single family home for the price of a lousy apartment in Florida. They also made over $20 per hour at casinos and in customer service. These same jobs pay less than half in Florida. Hotels pay most of their help around $8-$10 per hour in Florida. Dealers in Las Vegas can make some pretty good money as well.

I don't think anyone in their right mind would take up the argument that Florida has ever been the place with a healthy job market or to make good money compared to progressive areas of the country. Florida has always been known for the opposite. Posters on these boards overwhelmingly say the same thing.

Either way if we have to agree to disagree on many things then so be it. But I think we can all agree on this: DO NOT MOVE TO FLORIDA WITHOUT A GOOD JOB LINED UP FIRST!!

[annerk]

Originally Posted by tallrick

Often times gated communities are built to avoid local zoning regulations on lot size, setbacks, etc. The other reason is to keep other people out. In the Miami area this even extends to public streets. Many areas have had streets closed and even guard gates erected on publicly paid for streets like you see around Biscayne boulevard. People in Miami are more selfish that anywhere, and their limited space homes extend this mindset to the streets. The gated community is yet another symptom of America's decline.

I live in a gated community. I like the fact that it limits people who have no business there driving around (often much too fast) for no reason, and using the amenities that cost me over $200 a month for. The streets in my community aren't publicly paid for, so there for I find no reason to feel obligated to allow anyone in except the residents and their guests (and of course LEO/EMS/Fire.)

If you think it's selfish that I don't wish to share our common elements that used no public funds to build or maintain, why not open your house to anyone who wants to wander in. It's the same idea.

[stars99]

Annerk, I assume you don't pay non ad valorem taxes in those communities--do you get a break on ad valorem property taxes as well?

Originally Posted by annerk

The streets in my community aren't publicly paid for, so there for I find no reason to feel obligated to allow anyone in except the residents and their guests (and of course LEO/EMS/Fire.)

.

[psouth]

[quote=Retiredcoach;8973951]

Originally Posted by OrlandoRE_Miracle

The recession is going to affect almost everywhere, not just one state. If things get as bad as you say you'll need a gated community up in the rust belt too.

The biggest difference here, however, is that Pittsburgh had its "backbone snapped" when the steel industry collapsed 30 years ago. It has had a long period of time to reinvent itself, with ongoing and modest success. Our population has gotten older and shifted as many sought financial opportunities elsewhere.... kind of like Florida today and in the foreseeable future. It is a city/region that has been affected by by economic downturn, but not devastated by it. With the near total collapse of the housing industry and vast numbers of unemployed and underemployed, most of Florida cannot say the same. Florida is just beginning to feel the true pinch of the recession. One has to ask.... What can Florida offer to their citizens who have not earned their money elsewhere? Of all the states, is there another that is so dependent upon the whimsical spending of those who have saved/earned their money elsewhere? With the state's addiction to the waning sums built upon the tourism and spending, are there any signs that Florida is trying to rebuild itself with more real jobs providing real wages for its populace.

Have you ever watched the fans at a Steelers game?.... the mentality kind of defines Pittsburgh. We are in it together; taking regional pride in who we are and where we are going. Yes, a middle class exists in Pittsburgh, but not too many gated walls are present. We haven't had the need to shield ourselves from the those being devastated around us.

This is the whole problem with Florida's economy. It has always taken a wait and see approach instead of trying something new and reinventing itself. The attitude of the state is "Don't worry construction will pickup once again and tourists and retirees will start coming back again in higher numbers." The state does nothing to attract diversified businesses, large corporations, corporate headquarters, any kind of large good paying industry. It's just the same old story of small businesses taking advantage of third world labor and keeping salaries down.

As far as the people in Florida go, there is no unity like in the Midwest. Everyone is from somewhere else and you don't get the sense of community. Many want to live in gated communities and seal themselves off from the common folk. Many rich and elderly seclude themselves in Palm Beach or in an oceanfront condo where they can only see the water and not the other half. I know a lot of people keep saying they worked hard and earned it and should be able to flaunt it. How many 80 plus year old women actually earned their many $millions?? They either married into it or inherited it. Women did not work or make a lot of money in their generation. I am not faulting them but just saying. My grandparents have many friends like this in Palm Beach. Their husbands made it big or they came from a rich family. Either way no one should be flaunting anything right now with the way people are hurting and losing their homes, etc.

[psouth]

Gated communities are a joke. They actually attract more crime then they keep out. It just gives a false sense of security and is a selling point for communities. Do some research and you will find crimes and robberies galore in gated communities. Renters and others living in these communities know when people are away and they let their buddies and criminals in to take advantage. Happens all the time.

[airboat5]

settle down. no body reads my in put here. its just a little thing it will work out. doc was just having fun. give him a break.

[Retiredcoach]

Originally Posted by TriMT7

Well I'm not doing all that research for you. I HAVE provided statistics, however, showing that construction and tourism/hospitality jobs COMBINED equal less than 20% of jobs in the state. EVERY job sector, of course, directly and indirectly effects other job sectors. But to assume like you do that the state has all of its eggs in one basket is disingenuous.

In 2007, tourism represented 19% of Florida's taxable sales, returning $3.9 billion to the state in the form of sales taxes and generating $65.5 billion in direct economic impact.

Again, not insignificant, but while we now have a downturn in taxable sales from a downturn in tourism, that is not a permanent state. If you think that tourism is going to disappear forever, or become "obsolete" you are grossly mistaken. When the economy rebounds "elsewhere" it will also naturally increase tourism and vacations to Florida.

Meanwhile, the state IS trying to make strides in the right direction. Any reputable and recent economic outlook report by any Florida official or economist refers to the continued efforts to branch into different areas.

One of the every 5 jobs in Florida directly tied to the tourism/construction industries is a very significant number..... probably similar numbers to those numbers directly tied to the auto industry in Michigan, and/or directly tied to the steel industry in Pittsburgh 30 years ago. This staggers the mind when one considers that the numbers indirectly impacted are largely ignored and downplayed in your "statistical analysis". How can you profess to know that this downturn in Florida tourism and construction is not a permanent/ semi-permanent state? Steel manufacturing still exists in the Pittsburgh region, and we can be reasonably certain that the entire auto industry will not completely close its doors to Michigan, but the days of the vast sums of revenue generated in their respective industries are long gone. Sure, tourists may still come, and some may even choose to become Florida home owners. What happens if any segment of the 4 billion tourist dollars (the lifeblood of the Florida economy) disappears state economy ,what will be used to sustain the state?

[psouth]

Doctor knows best. Open up and say aaaaahhhhhh. LOL

Lighten up everyone. This is just the internet after all. No IEDs in here to worry about.

[airboat5]

I thought this was to be helpful.angry people got us into this mess.