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Old 09-17-2009, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Maryland Eastern Shore
782 posts, read 1,690,544 times
Reputation: 723

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellobiafra View Post
I'm wearing my damn seat belt CTR. But I damn well don't have to like it, and I'm damn well going to point out the obvious b.s. being shoved down our throats for the reason I have to wear it. So there
So is it ok if I think your insurance settlement should be LESS if you were found to NOT be wearing your seatbelt and now MY insurance rates will be increased to pay for the EXTRA injuries you sustained being seatbelt free?

Why should it cost ME for your right to fly through your windshield?
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Old 09-17-2009, 09:55 AM
 
768 posts, read 589,882 times
Reputation: 327
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nebat View Post
Interesting points of view. But honestly, what next? I personally hate to get caught at a red light, so what, should I just run it? I've never understood how motorcycles could be legal. I had a friend die on one several years ago. Everything about them seems unsafe, especially the operators. That argument doesn't excuse the fact that you should set a good example for your kids when they get older. Sure, you make them wear them now, but when older they can say why, our dad or mom don't wear them so why should we? Would you really want your child injured in a car wreck because they chose not to wear a seatbelt based on your example? You say you're wearing it now, but because you have to. That is still a bad example for the kids too. That will teach them to resent all forms of authority and become little hooligans, which our society really does not need any more of. On another note, my dad lives down there and the drivers freak me out. I'm surprised you would put your life at risk on a daily basis.
Failing to stop at a red light could do more than injure or kill you or damage your vehicle. It could also injure or kill others and damage their vehicles. Not wearing a seatbelt is a personal decision and the only one who may be injured or killed because of that decision is the person making the decision.

And what is so bad about resenting authority when authority has long overstepped people's boundaries? We need a little more resenting of authority in my view. And resenting authority doesn't necessarily have becoming a hooligan as its corollary. Was Thomas Jefferson a hooligan? Come on!
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Old 09-17-2009, 10:47 AM
 
1,468 posts, read 2,725,005 times
Reputation: 1016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Consent Withdrawn View Post
Failing to stop at a red light could do more than injure or kill you or damage your vehicle. It could also injure or kill others and damage their vehicles. Not wearing a seat-belt is a personal decision and the only one who may be injured or killed because of that decision is the person making the decision.

And what is so bad about resenting authority when authority has long overstepped people's boundaries? We need a little more resenting of authority in my view. And resenting authority doesn't necessarily have becoming a hooligan as its corollary. Was Thomas Jefferson a hooligan? Come on!
That is actually so far from the truth it should not even be needed to be addressed. The moment you are involved in even the slightest accident, especially a side impact, if you are not strapped in the seat it is highly likely you will lose complete control of the car. I had two accidents without seat belts. This was before seat belts were even standard equipment. In one accident I was hit on the passenger side of the car. I ended up in the passenger seat not even behind the wheel anymore. The car went off the road and hit a tree because I had no ability to stop the car at all it was on it's own. This was on Fort Lauderdale beach A1A. They told me people were jumping out of the way and I was very lucky I didn't run someone down.

In the second accident I was driving My 55 Chevy not really all that fast on a dirt road. I hit a deep hole in the road and I bounced straight up in the air and I hit my head on the roof of the car. The next thing I remembered after that I was off the road in a ditch. I was very lucky the car went to the left because to the right was one of those famous Florida canals people drown in in their cars in all the time and are found years later. Here is the thing. You have been waring a seat belt for so long you don't really know what it is like to not ware one and get in an accident. There are thousands of accidents that occur every day in this country that turn out to be all but non events. This would be very different without seat belts. In almost every case a person without a seat belt will lose control of the car to some degree, that is just a fact. I hope the OP doesn't think when someone is ejected from the car this has no impact on anyone else and only effects him as the car continues on without a driver. Any side impact you will never be able to even find the break as you are sideways in the seat, that is if you are behind the wheel at all anymore. This is all a non issue and really stupid, seat belts protect the public in general.

Last edited by mango23; 09-17-2009 at 11:20 AM..
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Old 09-17-2009, 06:33 PM
 
Location: Miami
1,393 posts, read 994,893 times
Reputation: 598
Again, nobody's arguing the fact that seatbelts ARE safer, just whether the government should be involved in making people wear them. And if they are going to get involved, do so across the board. Busses included and motorcyclists HAVE to wear helmets. I mean, if they're concerened for our safety, shouldn't the poor motorcyclists and bus riders be included too? Never could see the thrill of riding without a helmet. At the very least it keeps the bugs off your face and hair!
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Old 09-18-2009, 12:35 PM
 
1,468 posts, read 2,725,005 times
Reputation: 1016
Quote:
Originally Posted by valicky View Post
Again, nobody's arguing the fact that seatbelts ARE safer, just whether the government should be involved in making people wear them. And if they are going to get involved, do so across the board. Busses included and motorcyclists HAVE to wear helmets. I mean, if they're concerened for our safety, shouldn't the poor motorcyclists and bus riders be included too? Never could see the thrill of riding without a helmet. At the very least it keeps the bugs off your face and hair!
Bus drivers have to wear seat belts, he is the guy in charge of the bus. That is not to say people can't be injured by passengers flying around the bus. I would say that stylistically they have figures to show that passengers on a bus don't sustain many injuries in most accidents. Buses are usually slow moving are very heavy and pretty substantial vehicles. People come on with unsecured packages, wakers, wheelchairs and all kinds of stuff that can become air born in an accident. If they wanted to make buses as safe as possible it would be impossible for the bus to function as a public transportation. There would be no more buses. At a point you can't regulate everything, it becomes ridiculous. People can trip over curbs, should we outlaw curbs? How about all stairs, ban the sale of ladders. You see where I am going here. As far as motorcycles, there is a case to me made that the helmets adds to the number of accidents because of the way it restricts the rider perceptions. If you ride with and without one you will see the difference. Those helmets that look like space helmets make you feel like you have no idea what is going on around you. By the way, no one tells you you can't wear a helmet. Your level of personal safety is left up to you so there is no need to worry for the safety of the motorcycle rider.

Last edited by mango23; 09-18-2009 at 12:46 PM..
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Old 09-18-2009, 04:29 PM
 
Location: Miami
1,393 posts, read 994,893 times
Reputation: 598
Quote:
Originally Posted by mango23 View Post
By the way, no one tells you you can't wear a helmet. Your level of personal safety is left up to you so there is no need to worry for the safety of the motorcycle rider.
Exactly! That was my point. Your level of personal safety is left up to you when you drive a motorcycle but not when you drive a car.
I was also referring to school busses. Seat belts should apply to passengers in them as wel, not just the driver. I'm not sure, but do school busses have seat belts? Some of those children still have to ride in booster seats in their own cars but can go without even a seat belt in a school bus. I don't think having seat belts on public busses would do in the bus system either. Also, most of the time I see busses they are NOT going slow. I'm in Miami, maybe that has something to do with that! Just because a bus is bigger doesn't mean seat belts wouldn't make the rider safer. We have them in planes where they really wouldn't be much help in an accident. Lots of bags on their too. It's really not about making busses as safe as possible, just as safe as cars have to be. If we were to make cars as safe as possible, they would be unaffordable to most as well. Seat belts are to make it safer, not as safe as possible. They should be across the board for all motor vehicles and at the very least a helmet for motorcyclists. The visibility argument is ridiculous. My husband and I had full helmets and if they are properly fitted you can see fine. Riding without one using visibility as an excuse is silly. And yes, I do see where you're going about the curbs, ladders, etc. At what point are we grown up enough where we don't need a mommy government telling us how and when we should be safe? And are they really that capable?
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Old 09-19-2009, 02:00 PM
 
Location: Florida
108 posts, read 185,906 times
Reputation: 269
I posted this on another thread several months ago. I don't see any reason to retype it, so here is the copy and paste version of it.

I hate to post this on a thread, because sometimes it can go bad, but I've been a law enforcement officer in Florida for over a decade. I only mention that because I hope people will understand where I'm coming from a little more. This post might get long because I'm passionate about this topic. Please bear with me.

Seatbelts save lives. Yes, I know we've all heard that a million times but it's true. I have lost track of how many fatal crashes I have been to but to put it in persepective, my area averages between 75 and 100 fatal crashes per year (obviously I don't go to all of them).

Sometimes I show up on scene and the deceased is buckled in. MOST of the time they are not. No seatbelt in the world will save your life if you get broadsided in the driver's door by a Mack truck at 50 miles an hour, but they will help you in the vast majority of crashes. I have been to many crashes that appeared to be very survivable but someone died because they weren't buckled in. I have never been to a crash that looked survivable, but wasn't, when the occupants were all wearing seatbelts (unless the driver died from a medical condition prior to the wreck). I've seen 250 pound people get ejected through windows that they shouldn't have been able to fit through and I have seen people squished between the car and a tree. A seatbelt would have prevented that.

People naturally don't want to do anything that doesn't benefit them. In the case of seatbelts, they view restraint legislation as government babysitting. When I talk to people about buckling up, I try to show them what the they stand to gain by wearing the seatbelt. As an example, have you ever opened a cupboard door, then bent over to pick something up, then stand up and whack your head on the door? It hurts! Now try it at 60 mph and see how that feels. Once you pass that test, throw in a windshield and a steering wheel. They can make you ugly....... quick.

That line of thought doesn't usually work for people that feel they should have the freedom to wear their seatbelts or not wear them. I try to explain it like this. Again, you have to show people the benefit of wearing seatbelts and it has to effect them personally. Here's the scenario:
SCENARIO 1
You're stopped at a stop sign getting ready to make a left turn. You start to make the turn but you don't see the other car coming down the road. You pull out and hit the right rear side of the vehicle. The car starts to spin, flips twice and ends up in the road. The driver unbuckles their seatbelt and crawls out of the car with relatively minor injuries. The police show up and all you get is a simple traffic ticket for violation of right of way and it will cost you about $150. In the grand scheme of things, this is a crash that happens quite frequently.

SCENARIO 2
You're stopped at a stop sign getting ready to make a left turn. You start to make the turn but you don't see the other car coming down the road. You pull out and hit the right rear side of the vehicle. The car starts to spin, flips twice and the driver gets ejected through the passenger side window. They land on the asphalt and die a few minutes after EMS shows up. Now the penalties for the exact same violation of right of way are different. And the only reason they are different is because the OTHER person didn't buckle up.

If you made it through this long boring post, CONGRATULATIONS!!

And if your excuse for not wearing seatbelts is that they are too restrictive, see what a wheelchair feels like.

Take care and be safe everyone.
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Old 09-19-2009, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Miami
1,393 posts, read 994,893 times
Reputation: 598
Again......the argument is NOT whether or not seatbelts are safer. Everyone knows wearing seatbelts makes you safer in a car. The argument is whether there should be a law making you wear it. And why is there a law for seatbelts in cars but other safety issues aren't laws? Where should it start and stop regarding government and our safety. When are we grown up enough to decide? Maybe the government should just take matters into their hands and decide that we shouldn't be allowed to smoke. After all, EVERYONE knows smoking is bad for you. They've outlawed it in restaurants but I still have to walk through the smoke cloud to get into the restaurant sometimes and even Target! And I still have to sit in my car next to someone who's smoking in theirs and breathe it in with my windows rolled up! Yes, I'm very sensitive to cigarette smoke. Why not just outlaw smoking altogether? And what about alcohol? Maybe we should be rationed because more than a couple of drinks a day is unhealthy and drinking and driving is terrible too. And what about fat, artificial sweeteners, etc? Might as well get the government involved there since we're incapable of making healthy food choices too. And lets make cars that don't go more than 70 mph while we're at it. Violence in movies and video games should go too because it makes some people crazy and while we're at it, any kind of porn should be illegal as well.
Wearing seatbelts IS safer but should it be a law? And if it should, where is the line drawn at what the government decides is safe for us or isn't and if it should be illegal?
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Old 09-19-2009, 03:40 PM
 
23 posts, read 4,282 times
Reputation: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellobiafra View Post
So...due to 3 warnings in 4 weeks after the change in enforcement, I'm wearing my damn seat belt.

But I'm angry! To me, Florida stating that this is a safety issue is freaking absurd. In a state where I can drive a motorcycle without a helmet, yet I have to wear a seat belt while I'm surrounded by a ton of steel...c'mon! Is it not obvious to everyone that it's nothing more than a new revenue stream for local and state governments?

Bah
You are joking, right?! I don't know of anybody, in this day and age or for the last 20 years, that doesn't wear a seatbelt! Are you from another country? Do you not want to SAVE your life?! Good Grief!
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Old 09-19-2009, 10:27 PM
 
205 posts, read 280,597 times
Reputation: 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellobiafra View Post
So...due to 3 warnings in 4 weeks after the change in enforcement, I'm wearing my damn seat belt.

But I'm angry! To me, Florida stating that this is a safety issue is freaking absurd. In a state where I can drive a motorcycle without a helmet, yet I have to wear a seat belt while I'm surrounded by a ton of steel...c'mon! Is it not obvious to everyone that it's nothing more than a new revenue stream for local and state governments?

Bah
I agree that it shouldn't be the government's job to tell people how to take care of themselves. What's more unfortunate is that in this day and age with all the information available that people continue to make the choice to not wear a seatbelt. Your choice to not wear a seatbelt has lent credence to the nanny-state paradigm which believes that some people need to be forced to do what's in their best interest. And no, the idea of a person being 100% accountable for their own actions does not apply in a world of shared-risk.
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