[sunrico90]

Most agree to a sales tax increase....

[pslOldTimer]

Originally Posted by sunrico90

Most agree to a sales tax increase....

If you live in a rural area, you would have to be a bit crazy to favor the sales tax increase instead of property taxes. Rural areas do not generally have tourist activities and most people go to another county to make large purchases. Everything you buy out of your own county will enrich the other county and do nothing for you. People won't be coming into your area and paying taxes. Rural areas will be so hard hit they would not be able to cope.

Another problem with increased sales taxes would be increased internet sales. Right now, there is a rough equilibrium between shipping costs and sales taxes. If you buy on line, your shipping charges will be about the same as paying sales tax, locally. But, if the sales tax is increased to a great extent, people will more often choose the shipping charges. Fewer sales will occur locally.

While all businesses will suffer because of that, businesses in border counties will really be hurting. More people will cross the border to make purchases with lower sales tax. I used to live in a border town in Massachusetts next to Nashua, NH, where they have no sales tax. We traveled the 15 miles or so for almost all of our shopping.

People with significant disposable income will be the big gainers. They can defer purchases or have the means to make their purchases out of state. People with low incomes will bear the brunt of the sales tax increase, because almost every dollar they spend is subject to sales tax -- they don't have the luxury of deferring a purchase.

Sellers of luxury items in Florida should be absolutely against an increase in the sales tax. They might as well close up shop. If I want to buy a new RV, for example, I can do so out of state, then register it in one of several states where they are happy to issue me a registration whether or not I'm a resident. If the buyers have a second home out of state, they can register everything there (car, RV, airplane, boat) and save the Florida tax. The out-of-state dealers and border states will be the beneficiaries, Florida will suffer.

I will go so far as to predict that if a sales tax increase is passed, total collections will actually go down rather than up, and many people will be laid off when the businesses close up. Even if I'm wrong and collections go up, do you actually trust the Tallahassee politicians to send all of the extra tax money back to your county? Once they see all that money collected by the state, they will figure ways to siphon some of it off. They do it will lottery money that was supposed to go to education; do you think sales taxes would be any different?

This is the most ridiculous thing I can think of -- except maybe the Save Our Homes law. Before that was passed, I predicted all of the things that are wrong with it. I was right then, and I think I'm right now, about the sales tax.

[sunrico90]

Originally Posted by pslOldTimer

If you live in a rural area, you would have to be a bit crazy to favor the sales tax increase instead of property taxes. Rural areas do not generally have tourist activities and most people go to another county to make large purchases. Everything you buy out of your own county will enrich the other county and do nothing for you. People won't be coming into your area and paying taxes. Rural areas will be so hard hit they would not be able to cope.

Another problem with increased sales taxes would be increased internet sales. Right now, there is a rough equilibrium between shipping costs and sales taxes. If you buy on line, your shipping charges will be about the same as paying sales tax, locally. But, if the sales tax is increased to a great extent, people will more often choose the shipping charges. Fewer sales will occur locally.

While all businesses will suffer because of that, businesses in border counties will really be hurting. More people will cross the border to make purchases with lower sales tax. I used to live in a border town in Massachusetts next to Nashua, NH, where they have no sales tax. We traveled the 15 miles or so for almost all of our shopping.

People with significant disposable income will be the big gainers. They can defer purchases or have the means to make their purchases out of state. People with low incomes will bear the brunt of the sales tax increase, because almost every dollar they spend is subject to sales tax -- they don't have the luxury of deferring a purchase.

Sellers of luxury items in Florida should be absolutely against an increase in the sales tax. They might as well close up shop. If I want to buy a new RV, for example, I can do so out of state, then register it in one of several states where they are happy to issue me a registration whether or not I'm a resident. If the buyers have a second home out of state, they can register everything there (car, RV, airplane, boat) and save the Florida tax. The out-of-state dealers and border states will be the beneficiaries, Florida will suffer.

I will go so far as to predict that if a sales tax increase is passed, total collections will actually go down rather than up, and many people will be laid off when the businesses close up. Even if I'm wrong and collections go up, do you actually trust the Tallahassee politicians to send all of the extra tax money back to your county? Once they see all that money collected by the state, they will figure ways to siphon some of it off. They do it will lottery money that was supposed to go to education; do you think sales taxes would be any different?

This is the most ridiculous thing I can think of -- except maybe the Save Our Homes law. Before that was passed, I predicted all of the things that are wrong with it. I was right then, and I think I'm right now, about the sales tax.

So if you can't afford to pay your property taxes and chances are that you must fold on your house, lets increase the property tax.

Your comment is correct, but how many large purchases do a family do per year? I rather take the sales tax increase and not having to worry about property taxes. I'm fortunate that I have 7 years to go on my home loan and I'm working on a 2nd retirement at 47. But maybe the ones that are not as fortunate my benefit and can better deal with a 3% sales tax increase....

[TriMT7]

I spoke with a friend today who was in favor of nixing the property tax in favor of a sales tax.

Until I reminded her that small towns and bedroom communities throughout Florida (like Port St. Lucie!) don't HAVE ENOUGH commercial tax base yet to provide basic services with just a sales tax increase. She finally said, "I never thought about it, I guess I was just thinking selfishly how it would benefit ME." Would the state thus collect all the tax in a pool and "redistribute"? How do they decide how much money one county gets over another? Without any regard as to WHERE the sales tax was collected?

In Tallahassee sales tax was 7.5%. There was an extra 1 cent taxed on for road developments, etc. I can't imagine a 10%+ sales tax should the proposal pass! That would mean that a restaurant bill would cost food price + 30% after tax and tip! Is that REALLY good for businesses?

Has anyone actually run the numbers or have a link to see what kind of money a city is ACTUALLY looking to bring in if they get 2 cents more sales tax?

[Floridanative2]

Perhaps it is time for Florida to have a state income tax. As much as I would hate to pay it, lower property tax with the current 6% sales tax might even out. We can keep our fire depts and all other safty jobs. Most states have to pay more than Fl does now.
The downside: All the retired people not paying their share. Upside: Wages would have to go up, and would stop so many illegals from taking all the jobs!
Am I dreaming or what?

[pslOldTimer]

Originally Posted by TriMT7

...She finally said, "I never thought about it, I guess I was just thinking selfishly how it would benefit ME."

Bingo. Same thinking was behind SOH.

[pslOldTimer]

Originally Posted by Floridanative2

Perhaps it is time for Florida to have a state income tax.

Same problem I mentioned previously. Income taxes and sales taxes are state taxes. Property taxes are local taxes and are controlled locally (within state guidelines, but still essentially local). Do you really trust the state to do what is best for each community?

Look, back in the days when property taxes were equal and fair for everyone, you didn't hear these problems. Then, along came Save Our Homes, which artificially kept taxes low for a subset of taxpayers -- those who are willing to stay in their house forever. Everyone else, including newcomers, young people entering the home market, retired people looking to downsize, families that are growing and need a larger house, all of these people and more have to make up the difference for the people who are paying too little under the cap.

It is fundamentally unfair, was passed by the shortsightedness of selfish people, and the hens are coming home to roost. Get rid of SOH, go back to a fundamentally equal property tax for everyone who uses community services, and these inequities will disappear. People understand that services cost more and taxes have to go up to cover the costs; what they can't take is paying 3 to 5 times more tax for the same house as their next door neighbor who is using the same services and not paying their fair share.

Neither a state sales tax not a state income tax will solve the problem; it will just put more money under the control of state legislators who do not understand the needs of a variety of individual communities.

[DanBev]

I would prefer sales tax.I just bought 2 one acre improved lots in TN,water,septic,telco and electric along with concrete drive and pad for dbl wide.Taxes are $34 and $38.TN has 10 percent sales tax.Here in Suwannee Cty. they upped my assessment from $72,000 to $112,000,no ? asked.My neighbor life long resident who has had there children graduate school years ago is assessed at now $24,000.Property worth $70,000-$80,000.My taxes over $700,there's 0.Screwy way of taxing.

[pslOldTimer]

Originally Posted by sunrico90

So if you can't afford to pay your property taxes and chances are that you must fold on your house, lets increase the property tax.

That isn't the only choice. We've gone through market price increases before and have had taxes increase as a result, and we've survived. I've been here 35 years, seen several "bubbles", and never heard these kinds of complaints before.

The complaints are not about a fair tax paid on an equal basis by every homeowner (and every tenant, indirectly through their rent), but unequal taxes in which some people are excused from paying their fair share.

How do they earn this cap? Not by participating in the state's economy, but actually by hurting the economy. There are thousands of people all over Florida who have made the choice to not move or purchase either an upgrade or a downsize, because as long as they sit tight and do nothing, their taxes stay lower than they should be.

Everyone else has to pay a tax that is higher than it should be in order to make up for the selfish do-nothings. That is the cause of the problem.

The only solution is to repeal Save Our Homes and tax everyone on the same basis. The taxes will go up for the people who have been living with their heads in the sand, but the taxes should go down for the people who are contributing to the economy by building and buying homes, furniture for the homes, landscape services, moving services, and dozens of other businesses which depend on the housing market.

[pslOldTimer]

Originally Posted by DanBev

I would prefer sales tax.I just bought 2 one acre improved lots in TN,water,septic,telco and electric along with concrete drive and pad for dbl wide.Taxes are $34 and $38.TN has 10 percent sales tax.Here in Suwannee Cty. they upped my assessment from $72,000 to $112,000,no ? asked.My neighbor life long resident who has had there children graduate school years ago is assessed at now $24,000.Property worth $70,000-$80,000.My taxes over $700,there's 0.Screwy way of taxing.

Screwy is right, but a sales tax is not the answer. I doubt Suwannee County has enough businesses collecting sales tax to pay for essential services even if the sales tax was 15%. This may benefit Miami or Tampa with billions of dollars of taxable sales, much of it provided by tourists, but at a humongous cost to the more rural areas of Florida. The problem is the fundamentally screwy Save Our Homes law which artificially caps your neighbor at $24,000 with a limit of a 3% increase each year, and has no limits to what you have to pay to make up the difference. Even if you get Homestead and get under the cap, your cap will be on $112,000, not $24,000, and your 3% assessment increase will be $3,360 (and increasing each year) as opposed to your neighbor's maximum assessment increase of $720 per year. How is that fair?

If Save Our Homes had never been passed, you and your neighbor would both have assessments of about $50,000.

By the way, I used to own a cabin in the North Carolina mountains only about 30 miles from Mountain City, TN, so I have some familiarity up there. The taxes were lower on my property, also. The reason was simple -- there were few, if any, services.