[fastninja500]

Looks like the Fairtax is getting more support. http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServ...e=news_feature

another article on the Fairtax: http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pb...D=200770509049

Most of the arguements on this thread are addressed in the book "The Fairtax". Get a copy or borrow it from the library. It's a good read.

Moderator cut: Please limit discussion to FLORIDA issues or this thread will be moved to "Politics & Other Controveries"

[pslOldTimer]

If there is anything more onerous than increasing a state sales tax, it is the addition of a national sales tax. Just ask any European about the effects of the Value Added Tax, or VAT, which is a form of sales tax which is applied at every level of production and ultimately passed on to the consumer.


Moderator cut: Please limit discussion to FLORIDA issues or this thread will be moved to "Politics & Other Controveries"

Once politicians get their hands on such an easily increased tax, expect it to go up and up and up, with no recourse. All of my arguments about rural communities in Florida also apply to rural states in the nation, all of which would suffer even more if the federal government is given the power to determine who gets how much. Floridians already complain about how much of their income tax goes off to other states; imagine how it would be if it was sales tax money.

I find it highly ironic that the people who complain the most about government interference are the ones who back this kind of lunacy.

[TriMT7]

Originally Posted by Dee2e

You are absolutely correct! I agree totally. However, also cut goverment services. For instance, the Constitution say the National Govt. should keep unity between the States, oversee the money system and the military. Much of what they actually do, don't fall into that category at all. Too much government control over our lives is why we became a country in the first place!

Everyone is in favor for "cutting government services" until those services are gone.

How many people here complain about crime, education, etc.? And then we think a cut back would be beneficial somehow?

What "services," besides maybe "beautification" (which I am in major favor of because it increases standard of living, and helps attract business and tourism) do you consider "non-essential" services provided by local city governments?

Originally Posted by tallrick

As for PSL I was looking there 14 years ago and wasn't impressed one bit. Too expensive and lots of tiny lots for tract homes.

What?! 14 years ago you could buy 1/4 acre lots for like, $2000. Suburban "tract homes" (I.e. gated communities and subdivisions) in Port St. Lucie propoer didn't really start showing up until about 1998 or so, as most people went to builders and bought house/lot packages, and where 3/2/2s could be built new on 1/4 acre lots for like, $70k!

If that's "expensive" to you, I'm afraid EVERYTHING will always be "too expensive" for you!

[tallrick]

The small lots were very cheap, but I was looking for an area with 5+ acres and they seemed disapportionally expensive. The feel of St Lucie county wasn't right for me, but it's good for other people it seems! Personally I found Arcadia and Labelle more to my liking and ended up purchasing property around there.

[tallrick]

As for services, schools, etc, those don't make much difference if they eat up too many resources. Good schools don't come from extravagant spending, all you need is the facility, money for teacher and support staff salaries, and financially secure families to get a "good school". Impoverished students are at a disadvantage, no matter how expensive the school is. As for a national sales tax, I agree it is a bad idea, but considering how much goes to income tax, I feel a lot of it is just wasted. There's enough money in income tax alone, to provide all the services people need. Yet overpriced military contracts, special pork and other waste soak up all that capital. Smaller government is better government. Government should be there to defend it's borders, and let it's citizens better themself. People who refuse to work for this should be allowed to suffer the consequences of bad decisions. Entitlements like Medicare will eventually run out of money, as the Government-controlled medical system sucks all the money out of it.

Moderator cut: Please limit discussion to FLORIDA tax issues or this thread will be moved to "Politics & Other Controveries"

I for one would feel proud to pay my taxes IF I knew it was an investment in the future. But if I go to the county hall and see the ridiculous amounts spent for worthless projects, this is sickening. "Beautification" is the job of the citizens, not the government. If every person had the ability to care for the public areas near them, things would be nice with no cost. If people were allowed to innovate, the economy would be stronger than ever.

[pslOldTimer]

Originally Posted by tallrick

Personally I found Arcadia and Labelle more to my liking and ended up purchasing property around there.

Arcadia -- isn't that where the natives Moderator cut: Please limit discussion to FLORIDA tax issues or this thread will be moved to "Politics & Other Controveries"

Originally Posted by tallrick

If every person had the ability to care for the public areas near them, things would be nice with no cost.

You're close. If every person picked up the slack and did what they could to leave the earth a better place than they found it, there would be very little need for government. But, given the self-interest and greed of most people, that is a list cause. It falls to government to pick up the slack, even if they are imperfect at it.

I think your problem is that you fail to recognize the shortcomings of most of your fellow citizens. You have the naive hope that everyone will see things the way you do. There may be nothing wrong with your way of seeing things; what is wrong is that you fail to see others as they truly are.

Things like Save Our Homes are a perfect example. It is selfish and self-serving and greedy. There were and are better ways to solve the problems, but Save Our Homes is the one that sets it up so that greedy people save money at the expense of others. If they don't care enough to be fair, why do you think they'd care enough to do something for the common good?

I don't have any problem with you personally or the way you think, in fact, I wish everyone thought the way you do on many things. The problem I have is that you are wasting our time and clouding the issues with your idealism.

[Richard J]

The property taxes have to be based upon a certain year value....I picked 2001 and then all the sale prices forward would determine the taxes at 1% of the sales price....If you bought before 2001 then it would be the appraised value as of 2001, January......This was before the bog boom and you would benefit from a great reduction if the 1% went through....Richard

[dayworker]

You all bring up good points, whatever is done needs to be phased in over several years. We didn't get here overnight and it will not be solved over night, no matter what the governor says. Remember these are the same guys who solved all our inssurance problems right!! I don't trust any of the elected state officials with solving this problem, they have too many special interests they protecting. I have also heard more than once from some that the answer to all our problems is casino gambling, that's a special interest isn't it? Doing away with property will help us all, what about vital services? We need Police, Fire and EMS and those services don't come cheap.

[cvguarino]

Ok this is a new post and it will have many questions to answer but the core of this idea is to really take the bull by the horn and create a fair property tax rating system.
The premise starts from the absolute fact that there is a net figure collected for taxes in every jurisdiction. There is also a net square footage of space that is being taxed. For simplistic purposes let say we need to collect 1,000,000 dollars in real estate taxes and there is 100,000 square feet to be taxed. Very simple 10.00 per square foot. Well if your home is 1500 square ft you pay 15,000.00 real property taxes. That's it. Not what the home cost you and not what upgrades you put in with already taxed dollars that keep getting taxed over and over again which may also be a real constitutional issue. Now we will, have to adjust these fiqures to meet the absolute number needed to be collected it will have to broken down to commercial, industrial, residential ,developed and undeveloped land. I don't know all the categories but I am sure it is easily accessed.
If you step back and look at this idea, we can become the most revolutionary state in the Union. Can you imagin buying a home ,business, land etc and paying taxes on your usable and livable space. Property values will be determined by true value and location not by some antiquated biased taxing system. The real estate markets would open up like gangbusters. No one would be restricted by taxes. Everyone pays the same amount and the true value will be determined by the quality and location of the property. People will have to pay real value. People will pay to live in desirable areas and since all residents receive the same community benefits, (fire, police , hospitals, etc) no one is treated unfairly. Shortfalls are easily attainable by adding a number to the per square ft. amount. Also by some miracle rebates will be done in the same fair manner. Just think of the savings in administration costs alone. A simple one time mortgage tax can also be applied based on the selling or buying price to help fill gaps. These one time fees in my mind are digestable by the public because it is not an ongoing process that creates controversy year after year. People will pay to live in Florida with a forward thinking tax plan. Of course the industrial and commercial spaces with have to remain competitive to the surronding states and localities.
I have shared this concept with a Councilman from Miami and he has also spoken with some lawmakers in Tallahassee. Reception was not dead on arrival. It was greeted with interest. Of course those in sensitive jobs may be concerned but a smooth attrition process can be artfully thought out. I would love to take this concept to the a discussion point with someone who can get the numbers. Anything is possible. It's obvious the current system needs improvement. I tossed this idea around our community and also received curious attention. Someone help grab this ball.
Regards,

Chris Guarino

[cvguarino]

The answer for greater revenue and less fraud and more efficiency does not lie in the rate of the sales tax but how effectively it can be collected.
One of the starting points should be to take a look at how all gasoline taxes are collected. Before 1 gallon is pumped out at the retail outlet every single state, county and federal tax has not only been collected, it was paid.
The key to collecting sales tax is to collect it at the distribution point not the point of sale. If the IRS can determine how much revenue a restuarant takes in by the amount of the purchases it makes I am sure we can figure out how to make this work.
Lets look at a major increase in colllections right from the start. Most of the black market is eliminated. Especially in all the small retail shops and automotive repair shops. One of the biggest grossing businesses in the state.
Everyone pays the tax. For the tax exempt organizations let them file to get their return. How much auditing do you think the state will save on that process alone? Just think about the time you free up from the businesses not having this burden to complete quarterly returns. This is a process that can be implemented on an industry by industry basis. The more efficient and fair we become in assesing how to tax each industry we add them to the list.
We collect sales tax on internet and phone sales I am sure we can figure this out. Someone pick this up and and lets talk with real people who want change not just the same old stuff.

Regards,

Chris Guarino