Housing Bubble Popped but why aren't the prices reflecting it? (Orlando: real estate, income)

[nychiefsfan]

Originally Posted by Audacious

sound familiar??

Yep, it sounds like I'm responding to one of your posts

You haven't shed any proof that the housing market has hit bottom or that it will anytime in the near future. If you read the title of the thread, that's what this is about. That's why I post articles and graphs that give us some kind of indication that the market hasn't hit bottom and that now is NOT the time to buy.

To some of the naysayers: try backing up your words with something tangible other than idle banter or diatribe. It gives your argument credibility. At least David Lereah and Lawrence Yun tried to back up their tirades with smoke and mirror statistics.

Touche, my friend.

[afghan67]

Originally Posted by nychiefsfan

Yep, it sounds like I'm responding to one of your posts

You haven't shed any proof that the housing market has hit bottom or that it will anytime in the near future. If you read the title of the thread, that's what this is about. That's why I post articles and graphs that give us some kind of indication that the market hasn't hit bottom and that now is NOT the time to buy.

To some of the naysayers: try backing up your words with something tangible other than idle banter or diatribe. It gives your argument credibility. At least David Lereah and Lawrence Yun tried to back up their tirades with smoke and mirror statistics.

Touche, my friend.

Exactly. Most indicators point to continued decreases in prices. FACT - Inventories are huge. FACT - Credit is tightening. FACT - Rates are increasing. FACT - Waves of Investors are gone. FACT - salaries have not caught up to the average home prices in most markets. FACT - Rents are low vis-a-vis prices.

And like NAR, the "we've hit bottom camp" have no facts to back up their arguments.

[nychiefsfan]

Originally Posted by afghan67

Exactly. Most indicators point to continued decreases in prices. FACT - Inventories are huge. FACT - Credit is tightening. FACT - Rates are increasing. FACT - Waves of Investors are gone. FACT - salaries have not caught up to the average home prices in most markets. FACT - Rents are low vis-a-vis prices.

And like NAR, the "we've hit bottom camp" have no facts to back up their arguments.

Apparently, Audacious knows more than the Economic analysts...

[Audacious]

Originally Posted by afghan67

Exactly. Most indicators point to continued decreases in prices. FACT - Inventories are huge. FACT - Credit is tightening. FACT - Rates are increasing. FACT - Waves of Investors are gone. FACT - salaries have not caught up to the average home prices in most markets. FACT - Rents are low vis-a-vis prices.

And like NAR, the "we've hit bottom camp" have no facts to back up their arguments.

I only need one fact and it has never been proven wrong..........



HISTORY

[Audacious]

BTW, thank you to all who sent the very supportive PM's I fully understand why you would not want to post on this thread.

[afghan67]

Originally Posted by Audacious

I only need one fact and it has never been proven wrong..........



HISTORY

[lostbuyer]

Values Are Dropping In Florida

The Gulf Breeze News reports from Florida. “Foreclosures are spiking in Santa Rosa County. ‘It’s the worst I’ve ever seen it,’ said Deputy Clerk Joyce Watkins, who’s been processing foreclosures for over eight years. By the 13th day of June, Watkins and her department already had 31 foreclosures to process. She compared the 71 foreclosures in May to the 48 foreclosures in May of 2003, a 147 percent increase.”

“‘I think it’s as high as it is right now because people, when they plan for a home, have a certain amount they can afford. Everything is going up except salaries,’ Watkins said. Variable interest rates also contribute to the foreclosures.”

“Local real estate broker Sherlyn Waghalter said a lot of homeowners got overextended on equity lines of credit after values spiked after Hurricane Ivan.”

“‘People were taking tons of money out of their equity, buying boats or cars or whatever. Now they want to move or relocate and the value of their homes is 15 to 20 percent less. They can’t afford to close and have to bring money to the closing table,’ Waghalter said.”

“Waghalter said homeowners can avoid foreclosure by putting their homes on the market. However, competition is stiff, with over 1,929 single family homes available on multiple listing service in Santa Rosa County priced over $100,000.”

“‘The home has to be priced right,’ Waghalter said. ‘Our values are dropping, and the home has to show well. Buyers can be picky now.’”

The Palm Beach Post. “In the clearest sign yet that the region’s real estate boom has ended, Miami-based Ocean Bank confirmed Wednesday that it has filed a $50 million foreclosure action against the developers of a Boca Raton condo conversion.”

“The foreclosure may be the largest filed in Palm Beach County since the red-hot residential real estate market began cooling early last year. And analysts say it’s a precursor of things to come as the lenders who fueled the frenzy with easy-to-get loans continue to tighten the purse strings.”

“‘It’s probably just the tip of the iceberg, the first of many more to come over the next couple of years,’ said Jack McCabe of McCabe Research and Consulting in Deerfield Beach.”

“Ocean Bank is Florida’s largest independent commercial bank with $5.9 billion in assets, and lent millions of dollars on condo projects in South Florida, which now has a glut of condo units hitting the market.”

“In March, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. issued a cease-and-desist order in which Ocean Bank agreed to reduce and monitor loans to condo conversions and land development. The enforcement action came too late for the NRW loan, however.”

“The Ocean Bank lawsuit says NRW and six other borrowers stopped paying on the loan in December, only seven months after NRW borrowed the $60 million to pay $57 million for the property.”

“NRW had planned to create Villa Mare out of…the last major rental complex on the Boca Raton waterfront. Units were to be priced between $311,000 and $1.2 million. But even that sweet location wasn’t enough to guarantee success, especially when NRW plunked down so much to buy the two-building complex.”

“It’s tough to make the numbers work when you’re paying $356,250 per unit, McCabe said. Even when the sale took place last year, ‘we questioned that deal,’ he added. ‘The price may have been too high.’”

“Now Ocean Bank has a giant hole in its $4.5 billion loan portfolio, bad news for a bank with past-due loans creeping past the $208 million mark.”

The St Petersburg Times. “Sales of condos and free-standing homes, which mushroomed between 2003 and 2005, have plunged since then to pre-bubble levels.”

“The condo market has become glutted with apartments converted into condos. The new home market became glutted when investors quit buying. If there’s a townhouse glut, it’s smaller.”

“But there are signs. Mobley Homes recently advertised a ‘total appliance package’ plus $8, 000 in closing costs at Stone Creek. liane Balleza, a real estate agent based in New Tampa, said some townhouse developers have slashed prices in response to buyer offers.”

“‘They’re taking $25,000 or $20,000 off the base price,’ she said.”

The Orlando Sentinel. “Florida is in a serious funk. The big question is whether this now turns into a serious recession.”

“In a May report, Goldman Sachs economist Jan Hatzius called Florida the ‘Epicenter of the U.S. Housing Bust.’ Home prices are overvalued by 40 percent, with Florida also having the biggest glut of homes on the market in America.”

“‘I think a lot of people used home equity to fuel spending, and that is not there now,’ says the University of Florida’s survey director Chris McCarty. ‘I don’t think steady employment growth is enough to make up for that.’”

“Hatzius’ report backs this, citing numbers that show Florida residents fueled spending more with equity loans than did homeowners in the nation as a whole. Sales-tax figures from the state show spending is falling fast.”

“Tax collections in April came in $43 million less than what was predicted. And the prediction was made in March. In May, collections came in a whopping $70.3 million below the prediction.”

“Home builders are cutting back because of the housing glut. Construction here accounts for 7 percent of the state’s economy, compared with 4 percent nationally. And that doesn’t include the army of real-estate agents and mortgage brokers that depends on home sales.”

“Florida’s economy is addicted to growth. And there even is a hiccup in that, with a puzzling statewide decline in school enrollment this year.”

“‘Is there a sea change going on in our state?’ says Dominic Calabro, president of Florida TaxWatch. ‘Back in January we heard concerns, and they’ve only been more validated. We’re seeing a yellow light. It’s a great warning sign. We just can’t sit on our laurels and assume we’ll always have population growth and job growth as far as we can see.’”

“For further proof, as if anyone needs it, of the slump in the real estate market, we offer the 17,145-square-foot Belleair estate of pro wrestling legend/reality TV star Hulk Hogan that is back on the market at the reduced price of $17.9-million.”

“Hogan had listed the property at $25-million before taking it off the market last year. The two-story French Country home overlooks the Intracoastal Waterway and has a guest house, boathouse, pool and waterfall, maid’s quarters and four-car garage.”

“The Hogans bought the Belleair property in 1992 for $2-million.”

The Daily News “More than 300 people with a keen interest in the Emerald Coast’s real estate market gathered Wednesday at Destiny Worship Center to ask for God’s blessing. The Real Estate Prayer Luncheon was organized in hopes of breathing life and positive thinking into the area’s slumping housing market.”

“It was the first of what the organizers, co-owner of Crye Leike Coastal Realty Wanda Duke, former Destin City Councilman Mel Ponder and Destiny Worship Center Pastor Steve Vaggalis, hope will become a regular, uplifting event.”

“‘The heartbeat of today’s economic community is on the backs of the real estate community,’ Ponder told the crowd.” “Those gathered had one goal, ‘changing the climate in the area.’”

“‘We need to think positively and get everyone on the same page,’ Duke said. ‘Positive things that come out of your mouth will end with positive results. If we lose hope, we lose everything.’”

“Real estates sales are down all along the Emerald Coast. According to figures from Metro Market Trends, total sales in Okaloosa County in May were down 44 percent compared to May 2006, and year-to-date sales in 2007 are down 36 percent compared to last year.”

“During the luncheon, several speakers, including Buddy Runnels of Cornerstone Development Group, reassured the crowd by reminding them that the market has gone down before, but it always comes back up.’ ‘Work hard. Things are positive; they’re just in the future,’ Runnels said.”

[lostbuyer]

The Daily News “More than 300 people with a keen interest in the Emerald Coast’s real estate market gathered Wednesday at Destiny Worship Center to ask for God’s blessing. The Real Estate Prayer Luncheon was organized in hopes of breathing life and positive thinking into the area’s slumping housing market.”

this is to funny......cant deny the popping bubble now.....REAL ESTATE PRAYER LUNCHEON....who would of thought....

[ddlove01]

Hmmm, I guess it's one person's opinion vs another...I wouldn't call them ugly, not spectacular...They are large homes...but be careful of the HOA. Yeah the houses are 190K, but the HOA is $95month. I definitely don't think the homes should have been priced at 275K-300K, but 190K is reasonable in my opinion. Not sure of the lot size of these properties.

Originally Posted by LingLing

go to National Auction Company. These are ugly houses as SKB said.

[nychiefsfan]

Originally Posted by afghan67

Excellent retort, with numbers to back it up. Audacious has shown nothing in terms of numbers, graphs, articles, statistics, so far to back his views.

He's lost this argument yet keeps coming back for more.

From a psychological view, it's quite fascinating!!!